Cheating cheaters

[Logos7]

you wanna know why people cheat, theirs a reward for success and its an imaginary game. its not too hard to go from imaginary failure, to imaginary success.

What should you do about it? Well the problem has gone from a little cheating to enough to annoy other players, I would suggest a dice dish rolling area (you can get some nice wood ones with felt and shizzle looks nice rolls nice, maybe a dice tower), and maybe all this drama (yeah its offically drama, when you have people talking behind other peoples back about what those people do that they dont approve of and want those other people to affect change on the original person that those people are too afraid of confronting themselves, you got drama )will go away and you can focus you know on having fun with your friends.

If it doesn't get prepared to ask yourself if your gonna be prepared to kick the gal out of the group and quite possibly your monkeysphere. If yes, go all ape on here, sounds like you already have for the most part, polite ape , but ape . If no shut your mouth and smile and continue on.

As for all these people who seem to think that Thou shalt not cheat at RPG's was the 11th commandment , honestly I think your hypocrits. What I have learned about people and games is that everyone cheats, I do, Others Do, My Grandmother Did, and you know what we survived, games were still games, smiles where had, bastardry is okay every now and then, its just a game for sakes. All you people who are like, if everyone cheats all the time what kind of thing would that be , it would not be a game at all. Your looking at a corner case, No one is ever gonna cheat all the time (You would need some kind of cheating machine) honestly lots and lots of games get by just fine with cheaters (Just look at a major league baseball ). And I know some smart ass is gonna come on and say that I can't say this , and I don't have sufficient sample, and maybe that's how things roll where I come from but there is a bigger and better way where they come from, but the moral of the story is , Which do you find easier to believe in, that everyone (or close enough) cheats(Eveer) or that most do not , I'm putting my money on the cheaters.

L

 

[Aluvial]

As for all these people who seem to think that Thou shalt not cheat at RPG's was the 11th commandment , honestly I think your hypocrits. What I have learned about people and games is that everyone cheats, I do, Others Do, My Grandmother Did, and you know what we survived, games were still games, smiles where had, bastardry is okay every now and then, its just a game for sakes.

CHEATER!!! You've admitted it. GIANT DICE FOR YOU!

All you people who are like, if everyone cheats all the time what kind of thing would that be , it would not be a game at all. Your looking at a corner case, No one is ever gonna cheat all the time (You would need some kind of cheating machine) honestly lots and lots of games get by just fine with cheaters (Just look at a major league baseball ). And I know some smart ass is gonna come on and say that I can't say this , and I don't have sufficient sample, and maybe that's how things roll where I come from but there is a bigger and better way where they come from, but the moral of the story is , Which do you find easier to believe in, that everyone (or close enough) cheats(Eveer) or that most do not , I'm putting my money on the cheaters.

L

I believe that most people cheat (therefore lie). Doesn't make it right. Besides, cheaters never win (in the end; although in the short term, they sure do if they get away with it!)

Aluvial

 

[resistor]

I'm going to take a completely different approach to the "different playstyle" angle...

It might be an indication that she's more interested in a narrative rather than gamist or simulationist playstyle. A lot of very narrative-oriented games allow players a lot more direct control over their character's success. The most abstract narrative system often using bidding of some form, in which a declared action always succeeds unless someone "outbids" the declarer.

To use myself as an example: I cheat in (single player) computer games. Yes, I know it's cheap, but I don't care. I don't play them for the challenge, I don't play them for any simulation. I play them to find out what happens. I'm motivated to create the next step of the story, to create the super-awesome army that's fun to pound the computer into the ground with, even if it's totally a false victory 'cause I have all the cheats on. And you know what? I enjoy it.

Maybe she's similar.

In terms of concrete advice, I don't have much to offer you. Perhaps D&D with a fairly gamist/simulationist group just isn't the game for her.

 

[nerfherder]

As for all these people who seem to think that Thou shalt not cheat at RPG's was the 11th commandment , honestly I think your hypocrits. What I have learned about people and games is that everyone cheats, I do, Others Do, My Grandmother Did, and you know what we survived, games were still games, smiles where had, bastardry is okay every now and then, its just a game for sakes. All you people who are like, if everyone cheats all the time what kind of thing would that be , it would not be a game at all. Your looking at a corner case, No one is ever gonna cheat all the time (You would need some kind of cheating machine) honestly lots and lots of games get by just fine with cheaters (Just look at a major league baseball ). And I know some smart ass is gonna come on and say that I can't say this , and I don't have sufficient sample, and maybe that's how things roll where I come from but there is a bigger and better way where they come from, but the moral of the story is , Which do you find easier to believe in, that everyone (or close enough) cheats(Eveer) or that most do not , I'm putting my money on the cheaters.

Just because you're happy to lie and cheat, don't go assuming everyone else is.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Logos7 - do be a little more circumspect with your choice of language, please. The profanity filter is there to pick up the odd slip, but we prefer it when it has nothing to do...

-Hyp.
(Moderator)

 

[Kaisoku]

Honestly... with the how often one of my friend's rolls can get (and it doesn't matter who's dice he uses), I'd almost wish he'd cheat.

I'm not even joking... if he literally cheated on every 3rd roll or so, he *might* amount to the average gamer's luck.

We've started advising him on his character options, basing his choices around things where he doesn't have to roll to affect the outcome.


Ugh...

 

[Ginnel]

you wanna know why people cheat, theirs a reward for success and its an imaginary game. its not too hard to go from imaginary failure, to imaginary success.

What should you do about it? Well the problem has gone from a little cheating to enough to annoy other players, I would suggest a dice dish rolling area (you can get some nice wood ones with felt and shizzle looks nice rolls nice, maybe a dice tower), and maybe all this drama (yeah its offically drama, when you have people talking behind other peoples back about what those people do that they dont approve of and want those other people to affect change on the original person that those people are too afraid of confronting themselves, you got drama )will go away and you can focus you know on having fun with your friends.

If it doesn't get prepared to ask yourself if your gonna be prepared to kick the gal out of the group and quite possibly your monkeysphere. If yes, go all ape on here, sounds like you already have for the most part, polite ape , but ape . If no shut your mouth and smile and continue on.

As for all these people who seem to think that Thou shalt not cheat at RPG's was the 11th commandment , honestly I think your hypocrits. What I have learned about people and games is that everyone cheats, I do, Others Do, My Grandmother Did, and you know what we survived, games were still games, smiles where had, bastardry is okay every now and then, its just a game for sakes. All you people who are like, if everyone cheats all the time what kind of thing would that be , it would not be a game at all. Your looking at a corner case, No one is ever gonna cheat all the time (You would need some kind of cheating machine) honestly lots and lots of games get by just fine with cheaters (Just look at a major league baseball ). And I know some smart ass is gonna come on and say that I can't say this , and I don't have sufficient sample, and maybe that's how things roll where I come from but there is a bigger and better way where they come from, but the moral of the story is , Which do you find easier to believe in, that everyone (or close enough) cheats(Eveer) or that most do not , I'm putting my money on the cheaters.

L

With Gaming when you agree to play D&D you've agreed to play a game which has a random factor involved in it (unless the DM says otherwise) your levels your skills your attacks are all about taking that randomness away and making it go towards a result you want it to.

If you allow cheating you might as well go well do you want 5 extra levels and a bag full of magic items? because by saying someone can cheat you are effectively doing this, rerolls extra pluses on rolls are some heavy weight rewards in the game and the cheater is getting this for free.
I'm going to doubt that you would allow a player to have those 5 extra levels and a bag full of magic items just to make him/her happy.

I will state for a fact that all people don't cheat, people who do cheat however like to convince themselves that everyone does because then it becomes acceptable as "everyone" is doing it.

Off topic rant:
In all honesty I think cheating is a major issue I'm having to pay more taxes because people cheat the benefit system a classic example was a single mother at my work had a job on the side which she didn't declare so she could still get benefits then she went on and on about how she was going on holiday abroad somewhere on this £1000 holiday, me being in a certain amount of debt and not having gone on holiday in god knows how long found this to be a little grating, who knows if I'll actually have the guts to report the next person who steals from the state (and therefore myself) like this.

 

[ShinHakkaider]

I am curious, though. When did being dishonest become categorized as a "preferred playstyle"? Are we really becoming so squishy as a society and afraid of hurting people's feelings that we don't want to call cheating what it really is? Rolling a 2 and knowingly telling people that you got a 20 is just plain dishonest. Especially when the results are so wildly different.

This.

Seriously. Cheating is cheating and it really says something about a persons character. The OP is functioning as a DM not a therapist. If the cheating bothers him and other people at the table then it needs to be addressed.

If you needed a 20 and you rolled a 2 suck it up. If youre afraid of being screwed by a random element (in this case dice) youre playing the wrong game.

 

[evileeyore]

And calling her out on it is designed to increase whose fun?

Everyone's.

Her's included.

Learning that cheating is bad, you'll likely get caught, and it won't be accepted means she'll have less problems later in life. Which increases her potential fun, thus increasing the fun all around.

Sometimes you need to be "not nice" now to make things nice later.

So again, why does this bother the other players?

Likely it's the lying to her friends that is hurting them.

Well, without any hard evidence to back me up, every approach I've made at it to date has ended with denial and a bit of defensiveness. I mean, "That looked like a 7 to me," "No, my dice are funny," is about as far as that conversation can go without getting stupid.

You really need to confront her about it, on her own and gently.

Then implement Plan "Everyone roll in the center" anyway.


Otherwise, when everyone else is eyeballing her rolls, all the time, she'll catch on that she was caught and be even more embarrassed. Or maybe she'll just "up the cheating ante".

:shrug: Who knows.

I strive for harmony at my gaming table, so that isn't my first choice.

I recommend playing Amber. No dice, no randomness, very hard to cheat at.

Honestly... with the how often one of my friend's rolls can get (and it doesn't matter who's dice he uses), I'd almost wish he'd cheat.

I'm the same way.

I hate dice.

 

[billd91]

Honestly... with the how often one of my friend's rolls can get (and it doesn't matter who's dice he uses), I'd almost wish he'd cheat.

I'm not even joking... if he literally cheated on every 3rd roll or so, he *might* amount to the average gamer's luck.

We've started advising him on his character options, basing his choices around things where he doesn't have to roll to affect the outcome.


Ugh...

We had a case of this once. Player couldn't roll a character with a decent stat. So we decided to take his 3d6 roll and subtract it from 21. Got a good character that way.

If his D20s always come out low, subtract them from 21. Random distribution is the same. See if he starts doing better.