Cheating cheaters
- Thread starter Obryn
- Start date
Fifth Element
Legend
Yes, probably.
A gamer running a game for other gamers? Rather different situation. They're peers, not master-and-students. A DM "correcting" a player on the basis of teaching "proper values" is a very presumptuous DM. Note that there are many possible reasons, it's just this one is a very bad one amongst peers.
You're getting to the point of that question. A leader must teach and model good behavior.
However, the core point is, cheating is a bad behavior that was supposed to be corrected before they got to my peer level game. As such, I should not be expected to tolerate it.
Obryn
Hero
You're really, really, really over-reaching here. And getting funnier to read with every post.
To expand: I don't see a pressing need to remain value-neutral on the subject of cheating. The fact that you do makes me sad.
-O
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jmucchiello
Hero
I had a clarification post eaten by ENWorld so I'll try again here.
My name is being thrown around and not including the full meaning of my point of view. To whit....
My impression was that the OP was friends with the cheater. And as such, my advice prioritized the friendship over the game. If that is not true, well, there's plenty of advice here for what to do.
I come to this from experience. My friend cheated during our D&D sessions. And I convinced everyone else who wanted to go passive aggressive on him to just let it go. If he needed to cheat to have fun, it wasn't my problem. Eventually, he stopped cheating. Later we found out about stress he was having outside game. So he worked through it. For a few months he was basically a spotlight hog. No worries.
I guess my point of view is colored by the fact that I don't game with strangers. I game with people I'm friends with first. So any aberrant behavior at the gaming table makes me wonder what's up IRL first and foremost.
My name is being thrown around and not including the full meaning of my point of view. To whit....
Part of the current equation is also friendship. No, I don't tolerate cheating in a convention setting. But I don't lay the smackdown on my friends either. If my friend is cheating, I don't take a hard stance against. At that point the so-called psycho-babble/pop-psychology is important.
My impression was that the OP was friends with the cheater. And as such, my advice prioritized the friendship over the game. If that is not true, well, there's plenty of advice here for what to do.
I come to this from experience. My friend cheated during our D&D sessions. And I convinced everyone else who wanted to go passive aggressive on him to just let it go. If he needed to cheat to have fun, it wasn't my problem. Eventually, he stopped cheating. Later we found out about stress he was having outside game. So he worked through it. For a few months he was basically a spotlight hog. No worries.
I guess my point of view is colored by the fact that I don't game with strangers. I game with people I'm friends with first. So any aberrant behavior at the gaming table makes me wonder what's up IRL first and foremost.
OchreJelly
First Post
I had to add to this. I have had a player who cheated in the past on occasion. I never even had to intervene, because the players were all over him like flies on stink when he was caught. He has turned it around. All our rolling is more in the open and everyone is watchful. Everyone is having more fun now, including the cheater. Not to derail this, but it seems like the cheater feels less need to do so in 4E. In 3E I could sense this particular player’s frustration at contributing next to the powergamer wizard player, and that’s where the dice fudging began.
Cheating is up there with any other behavior children should have learned about in Kindergarten or earlier: Not acceptable.
Cheating is up there with any other behavior children should have learned about in Kindergarten or earlier: Not acceptable.
Fifth Element
Legend
Helpful.
But "cheating" is a very broad term. If you're talking about cheating on your taxes, I agree with you. Cheating in a game that ultimately doesn't really matter in any important sense? Not the same thing.
Why?
Listen, my point is this. In my view, cheating in this context isn't a big deal. It doesn't cause any objective pain to anyone. If I found one of my players was cheating, I'd say "whatever floats your boat". If the other players were bothered by it, I would not only ask the cheater "why do you cheat?", I would also ask the others "why does it bother you?" If it's something you can easily get over, we'd all be better off if you got over it. On either side.
In this case, the other players do mind, so the issue needs to be addressed, as I said before. But the assertions that there is something inherently wrong with this player, and that she should be cast out of the group, are off-base. There's more to conflict resolution than "my way or the highway."
Fifth Element
Legend
This is essentially my point as well.
I also game only with friends, so suggestions that a player be booted for something so minor are not in play, so to speak.
OchreJelly
First Post
Really? Look, if it’s a single player doing this and everyone at the table knows it, then it’s the same as you announcing: “Hey this player can make up any roll he wants, but the rest of you can’t”. I don’t see how that’s fun for everyone. It’s basically playing favorites which has a negative impact on the game, whether or not your players choose to vocalize it.
If the same situation existed at your table and everyone just shrugged their shoulders and said “whatever” (a situation I can’t fathom either but I’ll go with it) then how is the game fun? People just make up their results is like playing Candyland or something where “everyone wins”. Winning a game is meaningless without challenge. I’m not trying to belittle your thoughts on this, but I really can’t put my head around how this can maintain the fun for everyone at the table (DM included) over a period of time.
