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D&D 4E Forked Thread: Al-Qadim, Land of Fate 4e

Jubelo

First Post
Grr.. the board ate my first post.

Perhaps a sidebar on including dragonborn in Zakhara would be enough. I actually don't know that I would have them in my game, especially since I'm still ambivalent about having goblins, kobolds and gnolls as normal citizens, but feel we should have a mechanism for current core races to be in the game. Zakharan Ogres might fill the dragonborn slot nicely and I'm leaning toward that solution right now. (I know that seems in direct conflict with my goblin confusion, but there you go)

As for the other fantasy races fitting into AQ, I like the work Aaron's done. If we had to we could swap elves or eladrin for Peris, but I don't think it should be necessary. I don't recall any Arabian dwarf race off the top of my head, but 'short people good with making things' seems to be a fairly common theme in mythology.

The new backgrounds that Aaron has done fit very well with the setting, including the Tiefling 'slaves in Hell' idea which is far better than either of my two thoughts. I'm envious :p

One thing I strongly feel we need to keep room for is some Lovecraftian or Clark Ashton Smith influence. Both the Complete Necromancer book and Wolfgang Baur's 'Scimitars Against the Dark' article in Dragon #198 made reference to these themes and I think pulp horror fits well in some parts of the setting.

Jon
 

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Philosopher

First Post
The background for the races are fine, IMO, but I don't think they're necessary. At least, it's not necessary to flesh them out too much. If Zakhara is racially tolerant (as it is) and cares more about whether one is enlightened than what one's background is (as it does), then the backgrounds of the various races shouldn't be much of an issue. I don't think you should get rid of the backgrounds you've worked up, I just don't think much time should be spent on them.

As for dragonborn and tieflings, I think they should most definitely be part of the setting. Elves, dwarves, orcs, etc., aren't found in Arabian myth, but we have no problem with having them in AQ. (And rightly so, since it's supposed to be racially tolerant.) To exclude these races would be counter to the racial tolerance of Zakhara. They don't need to be major movers and shakers of the setting (humans have always been predominant in Zakhara anyway), but they can still be present.
 

Philosopher

First Post
Regarding drawing further inspiration from our own history:

While I understand that AQ was (rather strongly) inspired by the history of Islam, I don't think it should be used as a source of new AQ material just for the sake of doing so. AQ should develop in its own direction. Sure, there are going to be some constraints; the setting should reflect the edition and it should reflect the fact that it is on the world of Toril. But contingent features of the real world should not dictate the setting without good reason.

If I want a historical recreation of the Abbasid Caliphate, I would not use Al-Qadim, and when I want Al-Qadim, it's not in order to have a setting that parallels history. (Incidentally, when I do want a historical recreation of the Abbasid Caliphate, I'd use Tales of the Caliphate Nights. I just think AQ should be different.)
 

Quickleaf

Legend
I actually don't know that I would have them in my game, especially since I'm still ambivalent about having goblins, kobolds and gnolls as normal citizens, but feel we should have a mechanism for current core races to be in the game. Zakharan Ogres might fill the dragonborn slot nicely and I'm leaning toward that solution right now. (I know that seems in direct conflict with my goblin confusion, but there you go)
It's funny you say that, cause I've always thought it was a little...um...cute-sy? "Oh," the DM waves his hand, "the barber is a kobold who gushingly praises the Law of the Loregiver." It just seems like a novelty for players used to fighting these monsters, but lacking in any real substance - eventually it would get old hat. If these monstrous races are going to be included I want them not to stick out like sore thumbs but to be woven into the setting. I understand that it's supposed to be a fantasy racial polyglot, but dragonborn seem more out of place to me than gnolls, elves, or halflings.

The new backgrounds that Aaron has done fit very well with the setting, including the Tiefling 'slaves in Hell' idea which is far better than either of my two thoughts. I'm envious :p
;) I'm sure you'll one up me in some other department soon.

One thing I strongly feel we need to keep room for is some Lovecraftian or Clark Ashton Smith influence. Both the Complete Necromancer book and Wolfgang Baur's 'Scimitars Against the Dark' article in Dragon #198 made reference to these themes and I think pulp horror fits well in some parts of the setting.
I never read either of those - care to sum up?

The background for the races are fine, IMO, but I don't think they're necessary. At least, it's not necessary to flesh them out too much. If Zakhara is racially tolerant (as it is) and cares more about whether one is enlightened than what one's background is (as it does), then the backgrounds of the various races shouldn't be much of an issue. I don't think you should get rid of the backgrounds you've worked up, I just don't think much time should be spent on them.
You're right that being Enlightened is more important, but we are thrusting some very European creatures into a non-Eurocentric setting. By describing their backgrounds we allow them to retain some cultural identity - the point of Zakhara isn't that everyone is the same, rather it's that such a diversity of races embrace the same faith. I think these racial backstories help players understand how diverse Zakhara truly is.

As for dragonborn and tieflings, I think they should most definitely be part of the setting. Elves, dwarves, orcs, etc., aren't found in Arabian myth, but we have no problem with having them in AQ. (And rightly so, since it's supposed to be racially tolerant.) To exclude these races would be counter to the racial tolerance of Zakhara. They don't need to be major movers and shakers of the setting (humans have always been predominant in Zakhara anyway), but they can still be present.
Actually, I do have a problem with elves, dwarves, and orcs in AQ. I think they can work, I just think they need to be thoroughly intertwined into the world rather than feeling dropped in as foils to human heroes.

You know, I've always thought it would be interesting if the First Caliph had a group of companions composed of different races, heroes and heroines that each race looks to as a paragon of virtue. These companions were critical in the success of the First Caliph's message, ending the racial hostilities that plagued Zakhara five centuries ago.

While I understand that AQ was (rather strongly) inspired by the history of Islam, I don't think it should be used as a source of new AQ material just for the sake of doing so. AQ should develop in its own direction. Sure, there are going to be some constraints; the setting should reflect the edition and it should reflect the fact that it is on the world of Toril. But contingent features of the real world should not dictate the setting without good reason.
Agreed. However, I do think there's lots of "good reasons" to draw upon such a rich history. We don't have to recreate it, and we can diverge from it greatly, but by using it as a touchstone we'll create a more immersive setting.
 

Quickleaf

Legend
first crack at fighter builds

So, the fighter builds I listed were: Askar, Guard, Mamluk, Mercenary, and Traitor. I've tackled the first two so far, and I'd love some feedback. B-)

These have proved more challenging for me than the clerics because I'm still learning the 4e combat rules and also because the 3 fighter class features (combat superiority, combat challenge, and fighter weapon talent) are really good and coming up with swap-outs is tough. For example, I ended up valuing fighter weapon talent as 1.5 feats, after comparing it to the Nimble Blade feat.


FIGHTERS
Zakharans divide fighters into two groups: career soldiers who are trained to fight in their youth and are paid by a ruler, and those who learned to fight through necessity or simply possess brute strength. Both groups share a disdain for each other.
Career soldiers (mamluks and mercenaries) are usually connected to a military organization and act most effectively when coordinating as a group. They generally are skilled tacticians, competent equestrians, and have well-honed armaments. Whether groomed since childhood or raised in a warrior culture, fighting is in their blood.
Those who wield a sword for other causes (askars, guards, and traitors) may or may not receive payment, and often have conflicting motives. For example, a harem guard may allow favorable suitors to come and go under the caliph’s nose, or a traitor may still love his old commander who now hunts him like a dog for deserting. Generally, such fighters are fierce when cornered but lack the tactical finesse and superior arms of professional soldiers.

Display Weapon Prowess
Every Zakharan fighter has the ability to put on a stunning display with their weapon, whether a traditional sword dance or splitting a melon with an arrow. Doing so requires both a standard and a move action, and allows the fighter to use their Strength or Dexterity (whichever is higher) as a modifier to an Intimidate check instead of Charisma.

Honor Duels
It is not uncommon to see two warriors circling each other outside a city’s gate. Whether fulfilling a fierce sheikh’s ruling, seeking revenge in a blood feud, or simply a friendly competition to prove the superior swordsman, fighters often find themselves in one-on-one honor grudge combats. Such duels rarely end in death, rather the loser is expected to make an oath to the winner; failing to do so results in the loss of 1 degree of station. Other Enlightened folk consider this practice a bit barbaric.


ASKAR
“Who abandons his home lessens his value.”

When wars break out petty rulers prefer to call upon cheap infantrymen drawn from the ranks of their own citizens. You are one of the askar, inheritor of a proud family tradition of honor, warrior spirit, and loyalty to the homeland; indeed, you can recount back a dozen generations of brave ancestors. Their legacy lives on in you. Whether your home is a humble oasis or grand Huzuz it is “the greatest of all places in Zakhara”, an assertion you are happy to prove at swordpoint. When your ruler needs your service, you rise from your post as city watch or town sheriff to lift your father’s sword once again. While the more educated claim you are chauvinistic, provincial, hard-drinking, and loud-mouthed, they do not know the depth to which your family’s enemies and the enemies of your home have wronged you. Everything you do, no matter how bloody, is to restore and protect your family’s honor. When the battle is won will you stay the blade or will you take on your ancestor’s vengeance as your own?

Class Features: Combat Challenge, Combat Superiority, Zakharan Fighter Talent*
Class Skills: Athletics, Endurance, History, Intimidate, Streetwise
Station: 8

Suggested Feat: Weapon Focus
Suggested Skills: History, Intimidate, Streetwise
Suggested At-Will Powers: reaping strike, sure strike
Suggested Encounter Power:
Suggested Daily Power:
Suggested Paragon Paths: Fate Blade*, Peacemaker*, Scimitar Dancer*

Zakharan Fighter Talent: You gain a talent according to your homeland. Some ideas...
Crowded Sea: Power Attack, +2 Fortitude
Free Cities: Distracting Shield, +1 speed
Haunted Lands: Durable, +1 initiative
Heart Cities: +1 AC in light or no armor
High Desert: Defensive Mobility, +1 speed
Mamluk Cities: +1 attack with either one or two-handed weapons
Pantheist League: Shield Push, +2 Will
Pearl Cities: Blade Opportunist, +2 Reflex
Ruined Kingdoms: Powerful Charge, +1 initiative

GUARD
“Trust makes way for treachery.”

There are many treasures in this world – from royal vaults filled with the spoils of war to the irreplaceable life of a child – and many who would seize them were it not for you, the stoic and unyielding guard. You may have begun tending caravans or city gates, but now you are concerned with grander tasks – treasuries, royal heirs, and harems are your wards. While you may be richly rewarded, you have a deeper conviction, a commitment to the cause and your profession. Your eagle eye identifies threats, and your intimidating presence can help to dissuade would-be assailants, but when the time for action arrives your response is unwavering and you become an impassible wall of death. Even if your life pays the forfeit, your charge will remain secure. When faced with a choice will you follow your heart or your honor?

Class Features: Guard’s Challenge*, Combat Superiority, Warding Talent*
Class Skills: Athletics, Endurance, Insight, Intimidate, Perception
Station: 8

Suggested Feat: Alertness
Suggested Skills: Insight, Intimidate, Perception
Suggested At-Will Powers: tide of iron, warding strike*
Suggested Encounter Power: covering attack
Suggested Daily Power: comeback strike
Suggested Paragon Paths: Iron Vanguard, Slave of the Promise*, Tasked Minder*

Guard`s Challenge: At the start of an encounter choose a target (character or place) you are guarding. Enemies attempting to attack or enter the target are marked by you. If an enemy you have marked attempts to attack or enter the target, you may make an immediate interrupt basic attack against them. You can mark a number of enemies equal to your half your level.

Warding Talent: When wielding a weapon, you bestow +1 AC on one adjacent ally of your choice. You may change who you are warding as a free action.
 
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Quickleaf

Legend
Here's my completed pitch for a 4th edition AL-QADIM. I appreciated your critiques earlier, Philosopher, so if there's anything that sticks out as a sore point for anyone please let me know.
 

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Hodag

First Post
Looks good. Work ate my brain for part of this week, but I should have a new batch of critters done this weekend. Any in particular you want to see?
 

Quickleaf

Legend
Looks good. Work ate my brain for part of this week, but I should have a new batch of critters done this weekend. Any in particular you want to see?
How about Al-Jahar (City of Delights)? And if you're really up for a challenge a heroic-level solo holy slayer?
 

Hodag

First Post
The Winged Cat is from City of Delights. I'll finish the rest of them (except for the Genies) from that set then. Also a few dribs and drabs from Corsairs and Ruined Kingdoms.
 

Hodag

First Post
Zakharan Ogre PC Race

So I was looking at City of Delights and well...

ZAKHARAN OGRE
RACIAL TRAITS

Average Height: 9’–10’
Average Weight: 300–350 lb.
Ability Scores: +4 Strength, +2 Constitution
Size: Large
Speed: 6 squares
Vision: Normal
Languages: Midani, Ogre
Large: You have a Reach of 2 and may use
medium 2-handed weapons in one hand.


In most lands, ogres are big, ugly, greedy humanoids who live
by ambushes, raids, and theft; not so in Zakhara. While still
big and ugly by human standards, and sometimes greedy,
Zakharan ogres are respected members of civilized society.
Zakharan ogres usually speak Midani, but several also
know their ancestral ogrish tongue and have expanded its
vocabulary far past that used by their less intelligent cousins.
Rightly so, they consider ajami ogres to be quite barbaric, and
their language similar to that of a child.
Zakharan ogres have the same life span as regular ogres,
with most able to live 90 years, and a few for over a century.

Play a Zakharan ogre if you want . . .
✦ to be a hero with a fearsome presence.
✦ to be good at fighting, intimidating, or protecting.
✦ to be a member of a race that favors the fighter and
paladin classes.

Physical Qualities
Adult ogres stand as tall as ten feet and weigh 300 to 350
pounds. Their skin colors tend to be on the yellowish side,
though a few individuals have a violet tinge to their skin, possibly
indicating an ogre mage in their ancestry. Their eyes are
purple with white pupils; they usually have orange claws and
teeth. Hair color ranges from blackish-blue to dark green, and
the hair is carefully tended and often braided. Even the curdled
milk odor common to other ogres is but a subtle undertone
usually masked with other scents.

Playing a Zakharan Ogre
Zakharan ogres adapt their culture to the
type of society nearby. Those in the cities live as Al-Hadhar,
while those in the desert live as Al-Badia. Though not all consider
ogres one of the ins, or Enlightened races, many ogres
follow the Enlightened way and are as civilized and as honorable
as any of their neighbors.
All Zakharan ogres share a few traits. They generally dislike
ogre magi, though they follow the demands of honor and give
them a chance to prove worthy of respect. Most shun ogrima,
the offspring of ogre and ogre mage, for they are uncivilized
brutes (described in Golden Voyages). Even violet-skinned
ogres are outcasts because of their association with ogrima.
Al-Hadhar ogres have most of the same traits as other Al-
Hadhar. These ogres tend to be calm and rational, and they are
greatly prized as workers and warriors because of their
strength. Many are members of mamluk societies. Others are
similar to merchant-rogues or, rarely, shaíir or pragmatists.
Al-Badia ogres are also similar to other Al-Badia, roaming
the harsh areas of Zakhara, but living as free people. Al-Badia
ogres must occasionally deal with prejudice from other races,
for there are still occasional tales of ogres carrying away children.
Thus, these ogres tend to be less social than other ogres.
This attitude adds to the rumors.
In addition, some of the more brutish Al-Badia ogres interbreed
with ogre magi or ogrima. To compensate for this, and
to prevent even more rumors of evil ogres, the more civilized
Al-Badia ogres raid ogrima tribes, trying to kill them.
Zakharan ogres have the same impact on the world
around them as humans, dwarves, or elves do. Very few have
any crafting skills.
Zakharan Ogre Characteristics: Strong, confident,
imposing, honorable, proud, loyal, protective,
stubborn, uncompromising, determined
Names: As standard Zakharan for their region.


FEATS

Endure
[Zakharan Ogre]
Prerequisites: Zakharan Ogre
Benefit: You take only half-damage from ongoing effects.

Honor Bound
[Zakharan Ogre]
Prerequisites: Zakharan Ogre, Defender Class
Benefit: When you give an oath you may use Honor Bound.

Honor Bound Feat Power
The force of your oath will assist in bypassing any obstacle.
Even those Fate itself has placed in you path.

Daily
Free Action
Effect:
Until the end of encounter, all your defenses, to hits, saves, skill rolls and damage are at +1.

I know, Large and a +4 to Strength...
However, they have no encounter power, bonus to any defense, save bonus, extra weapon proficiency or much else.

Comments?
 
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