Anemic Horses

[Old Gumphrey]

This thread isn't nearly silly enough. When do we get to the argument over how quickly a horse can climb a rope? It is an athletics check, and so it's strength-based, and horses are pretty strong....

If you're going to threadcrap, at least try to be remotely relevant. Nobody here wants horses to climb ropes.

The funny thing about the elephant is the encumberance rules are hardly the issue there, its actually their unencumbered movement. Get them encumbered and their speed is probably about right...

Actually, no, it's about right. Elephants are faster than people, running upwards of 25 mph. Only olympic sprinters can outrun elephants.

The problem for all mounts is solved if you simply ignore the weight of the first rider (but not their gear) and the basic harness (ie not barding) needed to ride and control the mount in combat.

Again, no. Elephants can't carry 1 person + 1 saddle + 312 lbs; they can easily carry triple that figure.

 

[ObsidianCrane]

Actually, no, it's about right. Elephants are faster than people, running upwards of 25 mph. Only olympic sprinters can outrun elephants.

Speed 8 is their combat speed, this doesn't make them simply faster, it also makes them far more maneuverable than humans.

Again, no. Elephants can't carry 1 person + 1 saddle + 312 lbs; they can easily carry triple that figure.

Yes I'm aware of that, but being able to carry 312lbs more is far better than being able to carry barely 100lbs more right?

Its a matter of trying to implement a simple rule that will meet most circumstances needed for PCs.

Just make a howdah (sp?) a vehicle derived from the chariot rules and I suspect (don't have my AV atm) that a lot of the issue will go away for elephants carrying multiple people.

 

[darkadelphia]

I always love telling my players they need to spend money/use up resources to patch the rules Making players buy vehicles/magic items to make the mount rules work is inelegant and unfair. I think the best solution I've seen is to treat mount encumbrance like vehicle encumbrance--a riding horse can carry 1 medium creature + x pounds of gear.

 

[Hadrian the Builder]

You don't have to make your characters buy anything. This whole discussion is only an issue at the table if you make it an issue...

 

[Lizard]

You don't have to make your characters buy anything. This whole discussion is only an issue at the table if you make it an issue...

"This is only an issue if you use the rules. If you don't use the rules, it's not an issue."

 

[balard]

Just give all the dragonborns the Shadow of the Colossus horses. THAT is a Huge horse.

 

[darkadelphia]

Just give all the dragonborns the Shadow of the Colossus horses. THAT is a Huge horse.

Gonna hijack my own thread to say: I would love love love if I could come up with a way to do Shadow of the Colossus style fights in D&D and have them be fun.

 

[Old Gumphrey]

Just do it like a solo fight, and for your "interesting terrain" make it the boss itself, and include a physical skill challenge in the combat as the party climbs up its back to stab at its weak parts.

Elephant maneuverability is a system flaw, it's got nothing to do with elephant speed. All creatures in D&D are equally maneuverable in ground combat.

 

[Hadrian the Builder]

The rules of the game are intended to guide the game and provide a common point of reference for all players so that they can make reasonable decisions.

All the discussion points to one thing:
Some think the numbers provided for carrying capacity are unreasonable.

What are you going to do about it?
You can work around it with a houserule or whatever, OR
You can use it as written and deal with consequences.

For me, I choose the option that creates an enjoyable game. Sometime that means choosing to follow the rules precisely, and sometimes it means glossing over details. But let's not pretend that all the rules MUST be followed all the time.

In the meantime, if you don't like the letter of the mount rules, the main way to effect change is to bring it to the attention of the developers, or propose an article for Dragon Mag...

Edit: I am intrigued by the elephant example though. I think it is far more relevant than the horse "problem". And looking through the AV, there is little advantage to a mount at low level.

 

[Starbuck_II]

Gonna hijack my own thread to say: I would love love love if I could come up with a way to do Shadow of the Colossus style fights in D&D and have them be fun.

A few month back, wasn't there that guy who did that Boss thresd where he made them like Shadiw of Colossus. The memory is hazy but I think there was.