D&D 4E Is 4E doing it for you?

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

You should see by now that you're in hostile territory. They might as well hang a sign on the front page that those who don't worship at the altar of 4th edition need not enter.

Please, Darrin. Don't you think you should calm down a little bit? There are still several discussions not related or focusing on 4E. (Including two 3E only threads). You don't have to come to a 4E discussion where you have to expect 4E supporters appearing. You really don't. Especially not if you feel in hostile territory. Focus on the positive aspects, the games and topics you like. If you don't like the topics discussed, start one you like!

But please, avoid pouring oil in the flames of the edition war, especially by adding more of the "If you're not with us, your against us" nonsense. Especially remember that most of us played 3E in the past 8 years, and most of us probably also had a good time. But some of us just have an even better time in 4E. Just like others have a better time playing True20, StarWars Saga, C&C or Pathfinder.

Mustrum "Look at my new, shiny high horse" Ridcully

 

[vic20]

I'm running two groups right now. One is 5 (soon to be 6?) players strong, and the other is 4 (5 next session). I am running them both through KotS right now, and we are having a blast. I look forward to introducing them to the Goodman stuff.

 

[Hussar]

I think I'm only one of a few that I've seen on these boards who would genuinely be in the middle regarding the transition to 4E. Most here seem to be quite polarized.

I blame the nature of the Internet for that more than anything. People tend to get entrenched into an idea and then defend it for all their worth. If we were sitting around the gaming table, sharing a beverage of choice, I think 99% of these discussions would be far less polemic and far more friendly. ((And, yes, I realize I'm talking about myself here as well. ))

 

[Spatula]

4E is so centered around combat that rituals are just an afterthought. Not many doors are locked. Not many effects are permanent that can't be shaken off with a save. There just doesn't seem to be much of a need for rituals.

Depends on the campaign, doesn't it? All the rituals are old spells straight out of 1e, 2e, and 3e. They were useful spells in 1e, 2e, and 3e. They're useful in the same situations in 4e that they were in previous editions.

 

[Derren]

Depends on the campaign, doesn't it? All the rituals are old spells straight out of 1e, 2e, and 3e. They were useful spells in 1e, 2e, and 3e. They're useful in the same situations in 4e that they were in previous editions.

Except that they now cost a rather big sum of money to cast, have a rather long casting time and their effects are weaker than what the 3E spells had.
Still useful? Yes. Worthwhile?

 

[Spatula]

There are now only three slots that affect your characters numbers, 1) armor to increase AC, 2) neck slot to increase other defenses, and 3) weapon/implement to increase attacks. Any other items beyond those three grant small or limited bonuses that don't affect your character's statistics on an ongoing basis.

Unfortunately that's no longer true as of the Adventurer's Vault...

 

[Umbran]

You should see by now that you're in hostile territory.

And you should see by now that this sort of post only adds to the hostility. If you cannot deal well with such threads, I suggest you don't enter them.

So, no more of this thread for you.

 

[Darkthorne]

IR & Oakheart,
When it's purely about damage output what's the point? I have never built a character with the thought in mind of how much damage can I dish out. Previous editions you randomized stats (or not). What did you do if your highest stat was a 14? Put the character on suicide watch or see what could be done with him? My goup has had pc's like this a lot of times but we didn't trash the character. 4E is designed for at least the 17/18 in the main stat to maintain balance, where 3.5 became an arms race at times (and encounters past level 14 became swingy and could result in tpk's a lot) it wasn't designed where you had to have maxed stats to succeed. I see faults with both systems and strengths in both. I just don't see where maxing out your main stat & then having to keep it maxed so you don't get worse for your chances to hit as you level up is a strength. I understand why it was done, but I don't have to agree with it.

 

[BryonD]

If it was thirty years ago and 4E was the only RPG I had ever seen, then I am certain I'd be thrilled.

The game isn't any worse now than it would have been then.
The difference is that there are vastly superior alternatives available today.
So I choose those games.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

IR & Oakheart,
When it's purely about damage output what's the point? I have never built a character with the thought in mind of how much damage can I dish out. Previous editions you randomized stats (or not). What did you do if your highest stat was a 14? Put the character on suicide watch or see what could be done with him? My goup has had pc's like this a lot of times but we didn't trash the character. 4E is designed for at least the 17/18 in the main stat to maintain balance, where 3.5 became an arms race at times (and encounters past level 14 became swingy and could result in tpk's a lot) it wasn't designed where you had to have maxed stats to succeed. I see faults with both systems and strengths in both. I just don't see where maxing out your main stat & then having to keep it maxed so you don't get worse for your chances to hit as you level up is a strength. I understand why it was done, but I don't have to agree with it.

I don't know if it can be a strength, but I don't know how you would want to avoid it? Very simply said: If your ability scores affect other numbers on your sheet, you want them to be good, especially for the numbers that count for what you want to do with your character.

Of course, maybe they should just remove ability modifiers, and just use them as prerequisites for classes, feats or powers. I can see a system working like that, and I can even imagine that you could modify 4E to make this possible. Maybe playing a Str13 Fighter wouldn't be so bad then. Instead of picking the Str15 Fighter Feat you'd pick up another skill training feat, or maybe a Rogue multiclass feat.