They are still there, just in the PHB now.
D&D 4E Is 4E doing it for you?
- Thread starter Darkthorne
- Start date
Actually, it was an issue for me with 3e towards the end. The problem comes primarily from creatures like demons princes, who'd have a laundry list of 10+ spells, and likewise for feats.
For each of those spells, you'd have to look them up in the PHB unless they were utterly standard such as fireball. Feats? Loved ones like Weapon Focus. Cleave and Power Attack were standard enough to remember. Powerful Charge? Urk! Not only is it not that standard, but its effect changes depending on how big the creature is!
3.5e caught a clue that having abilities tied to creature types was something of a problem, especially when there were immunities/resistances involved, and so included them in the statblock instead of forcing pageflipping.
Turn Undead wasn't a problem for me as long as it was on the screen.
Cheers!
AstroCat
Adventurer
I should not have to memorize every spell to play the game or the stat block should list what it does, which it does not in 3.5.
And, No you dont know every little monster trait and monster feat, there is no way I should have memorize all of that. When I look at a stat block I don't want to have to go look up a ton of other rules and make extra notes. I am sorry but the stat block should tell me at least 90% of what I need to know. With 3.5 you have the monster traits, special abilities, exceptions to those abilities for each monster type, odd feats, spells, monster summoning is also a pain. The stat block does not tell you any of that, just that it is is there.
There is just so much about running 3.5 which is not slick or elegant. I've run a 3.5e game for the past 2 years, and I know whats up, and it is a pain compared to 4E, just no doubt about it.
Turn undead in 3.5 is a convoluted annoying system that is a pain to DM and a super pain for the players, especially those who are not hardcore rules geeks.
Look, I had fun gaming with my friends but 3.5e rules are bloated and messy, sorry. I want less time in the rules and more time in the game.
And, No you dont know every little monster trait and monster feat, there is no way I should have memorize all of that. When I look at a stat block I don't want to have to go look up a ton of other rules and make extra notes. I am sorry but the stat block should tell me at least 90% of what I need to know. With 3.5 you have the monster traits, special abilities, exceptions to those abilities for each monster type, odd feats, spells, monster summoning is also a pain. The stat block does not tell you any of that, just that it is is there.
There is just so much about running 3.5 which is not slick or elegant. I've run a 3.5e game for the past 2 years, and I know whats up, and it is a pain compared to 4E, just no doubt about it.
Turn undead in 3.5 is a convoluted annoying system that is a pain to DM and a super pain for the players, especially those who are not hardcore rules geeks.
Look, I had fun gaming with my friends but 3.5e rules are bloated and messy, sorry. I want less time in the rules and more time in the game.
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Qualidar
First Post
I don't agree that it's bad in play. Where it really bogs down for me is before: creating adventures. That's the real time suck.
malraux
First Post
The other issue I found with 3.5 stat blocks is that first I'd have to figure out what the heck the creature did (looking up all the SP, SA, feats, etc) then put all that info together to determine tactics. By including broad tactic info in stat line (soldier, brute, controller, etc) I can already have a mental plan for what the creature does rather than having to make up each on a case by case basis.
Remathilis
Legend
Here is why I don't like 3.5 statblocks.
You have a giant with the Awesome Blow feat. Without opening the books/SRD, what does it do for the giant?
You have a giant with the Awesome Blow feat. Without opening the books/SRD, what does it do for the giant?
malraux
First Post
Let's him knock characters back IIRC? But I only remember that because its a great feat that I never got to use, but always wanted to. And of course I have no idea what the rules for it are without looking it up. Checking it, apparently it involves a penalty to the attack roll, then a reflex save. Even knowing those, I'd have no idea what either of those were either.
Wormwood
Adventurer
I have no idea what it does for the giant, but I do know that by the time I look it up (as well as everything else on the frakkin' stat block) I don't really care any more.
Mustrum_Ridcully
Legend
Oh, ideally you need just 3 good ability scores (and one very good), but all classes have a certain degree of "MAD" in them, so you often end up with 4 ability scores you'd want. (1 for your attacks, 1 for secondary abilities of your class - like Strength for Brutal Scoundrels and Charisma for Artful Dogers if we talk about a Rogue, and the remaining two to improve your defenses.)
I was more referring to the importance of your "attack" ability score.
When 3E first came out, I loved the statblock.
Every monster was written up like a PC. As a DM, I hated trying to figure out how a monster interacted with the world. But then after actually using it, I realized the 1e/2e sstem was much better for actual use. It READS good but conversely it is not so good in use.....
Makes no sense having a statblock for half a page when the monster doesn't even last 3 rounds
Every monster was written up like a PC. As a DM, I hated trying to figure out how a monster interacted with the world. But then after actually using it, I realized the 1e/2e sstem was much better for actual use. It READS good but conversely it is not so good in use.....
Makes no sense having a statblock for half a page when the monster doesn't even last 3 rounds
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