is it possible to multiclass?

[Turtlejay]

I dont understand why should I PC party composed of a lvl 15 warlord, wizard, cleric and rogue should absolutely OWN a NPC party composed of a lvl 15 warlord, wizard, cleric and rogue.
Makes no sense to me. I do however that this is the way the game is designed, and that only a fraction of your ressources should be expended against an encounter of your own level, but truly it's riddick....

...Truly, how is a lvl 15 guy supposed to feel good compared other lvl 15 NPCs of say his paragon class (ex: Kensei PC in a Kensei NPC order) if he knows he has 3 times more powers than them and is simply not playing the same game...

A level 15 Cleric NPC has 120+Con HP, Channel Divinity, Healing word, the same starting stats and stat increases as a PC, a cleric at will, 2 encounter, 2 utility, and one daily power. He has 2 healing surges and can use a second wind. Plus, he adds +5 to all his defenses, attack rolls, and damage rolls.

A level 15 Cleric PC has 82+Con HP, plus cleric abilities, 2 at wills, 4 encounter, 4 utility, and 3 daily powers. He has 7+con mod surges, and 9 feats, plus a bunch of magic items to boost him in other ways.

That NPC *WILL* use his daily during the fight, and he will use his 2 encouter abilities as well. I don't see the PC's as being 3 times more powerful.

 

[HighTemplar]

The DM is the one who controls what NPCs a PC party faces. It is not recommended nor encouraged for a DM to "build" NPCs using the rules for making PCs. Also, there is no "Warlord" or "Rogue" in the MM that I am aware of, so no worries there either.

IF you want to, you can check the class templates DMG p182.

If the PCs don't fight the NPC, though, I don't understand why you would stat him up at all. My players know exactly what level the NPCs in town max at. I've told them. But that doesn't mean that they follow all of the exact same rules as the PCs. I never mentioned templates or the extra abilities that a random monster/NPC can have anyway. Items? Who knows.
In the near future, there's going to be an attack by a horde upon the town. I guarantee that they're going to hear about things that won't be in the books? Why? Because the edition lays out exactly what its purpose is and it leaves a lot of it up to the DM.

I think this might need some forkeage if it leads to a PC/NPC discussion in a multiclassing thread.

How can you tell your players what the highest lvl NPC in town is ???
I mean you could give them an approximate idea, but really is that a good move ?

In "hero" realities, the heroes are almost always better than anyone around them. It's why they're heroes.

Nothing states that a 4e dnd game HAS to be a "hero" reality.

The NPC and monster levels and the exp system is there suggested as a guideline so you have ground to stand on when you try to balance your game difficulty, level gaining process and treasure acquisition. It's all good but as an experienced DM you can easily bend those rules, for the satisfaction of the majority(or yours if thats all you care about).

 

[Stogoe]

Nothing states that a 4e dnd game HAS to be a "hero" reality.

Pretty sure the actual rules in the books disagree with you there.

 

[Engilbrand]

Let me define a "hero" reality. It's why I don't have nearly as many problems as some people do with certain things in movies and games.
1. A hero reality does not have the exact same laws of physics that we do. They have a lot of similarities and overlap, but it isn't necessary that everything is identical. If it was, it wouldn't be any different from our own.
2. They have Heroes. These are people who stand out from the rest. They make major changes to things and interact with things that most people don't.

Examples of heroes doing heroic things in hero realities.
1. Die Hard. Willis' character has been in how many major terrorist-stopping situations? He's survived what? Right. And I'm sure that he's a "completely normal guy".
2. Indiana Jones. I thought that this would be obvious, but then people started talking about how unbelievable it was that he could survive in a refrigerator after a nuke hit the area. Right. Because the Ark of the Covenant destroying the Nazis, Jesus' cup from the Last Supper being guarded by an immortal knight, a temple priest reaching into someone's chest and they're still alive after he removes the heart, and interdimensional aliens all make perfect sense in the "real world" in which those movies take place. Noobs.
3. Iron Man. "He survived a bunch of falls in his armor that would have liquified his bones." You are aware that this is in the same reality as the Hulk and Thor, right? What makes you think that "physics" need to work the same for Stark. They explain everything with technology, but that doesn't change the fact that it's a much different reality from our own.
4. D&D. DUH!!!!! DUH!!!!! Hell, this edition even flats out says that heroes are special. Even specialer (ha) than they use to be. If you're not playing them as something special, then you're playing the wrong damn game.

 

[Jhaelen]

Pretty sure the actual rules in the books disagree with you there.

I am, however, pretty sure they don't.

It's arguably what works best for 4E, it may even be the default but it's not necessarily the only way to play the game.

 

[Asmor]

I think what Stooge was getting at was somewhere in the PHB it says that PCs are heroes and a cut above right from level 1. At least, I think I remember reading that somewhere, could be wrong.

In any case, it's correct that you're not required to play D&D as a heroic game, but it's also true that D&D was designed to be a heroic game, and that design philosophy informs every aspect of the game.

If you need a pitcher, you could always take a bowl, cut out a notch, and affix a little spout to it. That would certainly work as a pitcher. But it would be a lot simpler, and probably more effective, to just go out and buy a pitcher.

In other words, you can make D&D into whatever you want, but if that requires fundamentally altering the assumptions and designs of the system you might want to look into some other system that's closer to what you're looking for.

 

[Stogoe]

2. Indiana Jones. I thought that this would be obvious, but then people started talking about how unbelievable it was that he could survive in a refrigerator after a nuke hit the area. Right. Because the Ark of the Covenant destroying the Nazis, Jesus' cup from the Last Supper being guarded by an immortal knight, a temple priest reaching into someone's chest and they're still alive after he removes the heart, and interdimensional aliens all make perfect sense in the "real world" in which those movies take place. Noobs.

See, for me, the Indiana Jones universe is a world of Pulp Fantasy, where things like the Ark of the Covenant and Excalibur and Atlantis and Magical Stones from India and the Holy Grail actually have supernatural power. Space Aliens and Greasers and Nuclear Bombs and Commies don't exactly fit into my concept of the Indy-verse. Too sciffy for Indy, imo.

EDIT: Not that I disagree with your point; I was just taking the opportunity to harp on the ridiculous mess that was Crystal Skull.