Do non-spellcasting, non-adventuring priests exist in D&D?

[S'mon]

I'll take this one step further by noting that, prior to the introduction of Expert classes in D&D 3x, the vast majority of NPCs (to say nothing of priests specifically) in offical AD&D/D&D supplements were actually classed characters (e.g., Clerics, Magic Users, Fighters, etc).

Every city guard, serving wench, and barkeep had levels in something.

I personally never cared for this, but I'll be damned if there were rules for detailed non-classed NPCs in the core books prior to D&D 3x. The most in depth exploration of the concept that I can recall was the introduction of 0-Level characters in the much maligned Greyhawk Adventures hardcover (which, while clumsy, I still liked).

This is one area in which I think newer editions of D&D have vastly improved upon older editions (at least with regard to core rules).

Hmm, I kinda like the Normal Man rules of eg Moldvay B/X. However, I'm now giving PCs and major NPCs a hit point kicker of up to +10 hp, for some reason getting their hp into double figures greatly greatly helps with NM characters (the princess, the merchant) feeling 'real' and not just cardboard props.

 

[WayneLigon]

I'm not sure where the meme started, but the idea of the majority of any religious heirarchy being non-spellcasting, non-adventuring normals is something I've used since the 2E days. Eberron may be the first enshrinement of that idea in The Rules, but it's an idea that's been 'out there' for almost 20 years.

 

[jdrakeh]

Hmm, I kinda like the Normal Man rules of eg Moldvay B/X.

I'm aware of those rules, though they don't really allow for mechanically unique NPCs, IMHO. Incidentally, that concept existed as early as OD&D (where all Normal Men are treated as Level 1 fighters).

 

[Charwoman Gene]

If the latest batch of polls is any indication

Thye are internet polls which makes them mean nothing.

 

[Obryn]

Personally, I don't think such rules are necessary for most NPCs. I think detailed rules for advancement and powers are appropriate for possibly long-term characters (like PCs), but are useless overhead for most NPCs (and monsters). Non-classed NPCs don't need rules to regulate their advancement or capabilities, they just need whatever collection of stats, abilities, and powers are appropriate. The DM can assign those without having to follow a progression or formula. I think rules for this just get in the way and encourage make-work.

I've come full-circle with this.

I thought the NPC classes in 3e were amazingly cool, at first. After some time, I realized that, while class/level is certainly an excellent way to rate PCs, it's not always the best idea for NPCs. If I wanted a Weaponsmith with a +15 to Weaponsmithing, he'd have to be 9th level or so, along with all the additional hit points and combat ability.

4e reintroduced NPCs described exactly as you describe them, and right now, that feels like the right way to do things.

-O

 

[Henry]

Eberron is the first time that I've seen it expressly said that most church officials are experts, and only a rare few are clerics.

In every other edition that I've played, there has been a tacit assumption at least that churches are led by clerics (and in adventures are statted as such).

Cheers

In 2nd edition Forgotten Realms, in fact, the Realms were RIFE with low-level clerics at every little town parish or thorp. Pretty much every acolyte described was a Cleric 1, the head priest a Cleric 2 or 3, etc.

In 1E and Basic as Philotomy Jurament said, there was a larger insinuation that 0-levels were more common in both holy and secular professions, but it wasn't spelled out, as most modules and so forth assumed "priest" meant "cleric class." I kind of liked what Eberron started with using the NPC classes more, making the actual clerics both PC and NPC that much more special. They were the only ones gifted with the ability to channel raw holy power any time they wished (spontaneous cures), the ability to turn undead by virtue of faith, etc.

 

[Psion]

Thye are internet polls which makes them mean nothing.

That oft resorted-to reaction is accurate in the context of making assertions about the (gaming) world-at-large. In this context, it is not.

Internet polls don't mean much with respect to determining the tastes of a much larger and potentially entirely different population than the one that is being sampled. If I were to say that a poll here indicates lots of people in the gaming community at large are playing 3e, there's no confidence that is accurate.

But when trying to form conclusions about the nature of the population (say, the ENWorld community), polls taken sampling a significant fraction of that population (ENWorld) have statistical significance. (Assuming no other statistically invalid methods are at work, natch.)

 

[Daniel D. Fox]

Absolutely. There is a Fighter in our 4E group who is a priest by profession, but isn't a rules-standard Cleric.

But DnD assumes the overwhelming majority of priests are non-spellcasters.

 

[Delta]

In 1E and Basic as Philotomy Jurament said, there was a larger insinuation that 0-levels were more common in both holy and secular professions, but it wasn't spelled out, as most modules and so forth assumed "priest" meant "cleric class."

Strongly disagree re: holy professions. That's also not what Philotomy said above (that I can tell). Can you come up with 1 or 2 examples in published 1E/Basic where "priests" were anything other than "cleric class"?

 

[billd91]

You could have priests in a campaign without any clerical powers whatsoever. But, frankly, I wouldn't recommend it. I would recommend any actual priest, initiated into whatever holy organization the religion has, have at least 1 level of cleric as the symbolic requirement for the vows they've undertaken and the mechanical manifestation of the god's acceptance of that character as a representative on the campaign world.

I would have a variety of different sorts of priests, though. And membership in the upper ranks of the church hierarchy would probably be dependent more on a bunch of expert levels rather than actual adventuring cleric levels. After all, playing the priestly politics has different requirements than smashing infidels and plundering dungeons.