Do non-spellcasting, non-adventuring priests exist in D&D?

[Set]

I'll take this one step further by noting that, prior to the introduction of Expert classes in D&D 3x, the vast majority of NPCs (to say nothing of priests specifically) in offical AD&D/D&D supplements were actually classed characters (e.g., Clerics, Magic Users, Fighters, etc).

Some of the 2e stuff got pretty crazy about it too. Every single city had to have a few high level wizards, and the high priest of every temple had to be 12th to 20th level, even if it was a smallish city / faith and an 8th level Cleric could easily have handled things (and created the possibility that one would have to go further to get access to something like Raise Dead).

I very much liked the Eberron notion of more Adepts and Experts and Aristocrats in the clergy, and less Clerics. (Bards also make handy priests, with some healing, some evangelizing and some lore-mastery.)

One thing I would want to do would be to make the Heal skill more effective in a Cleric-light clergy situation.

 

[S'mon]

I would recommend any actual priest, initiated into whatever holy organization the religion has, have at least 1 level of cleric as the symbolic requirement for the vows they've undertaken and the mechanical manifestation of the god's acceptance of that character as a representative on the campaign world.

The Cleric class is too butt-kicking holy warrior-ish though, for most faiths. The 3e Adept is a bit better.

 

[billd91]

The Cleric class is too butt-kicking holy warrior-ish though, for most faiths. The 3e Adept is a bit better.

I'm not convinced that the cleric class is too butt-kicking holy warrior-ish, but I would consider the difference between cleric and adept as a flavor, poe-TAY-toe/poe-TAH-toe kind of difference in the same basic role.

In any event, I believe a full-fledged priest who has no divine power at all isn't a priest. He should be some kind of lay preacher or other servant of the church, not fully party to its secrets/liturgies or divine authority. Not all priests will be powerful clerics/adepts, but they should all have some form of divine power to wield (as well as responsibility) as part of their position in the church.

 

[S'mon]

In any event, I believe a full-fledged priest who has no divine power at all isn't a priest. He should be some kind of lay preacher or other servant of the church, not fully party to its secrets/liturgies or divine authority. Not all priests will be powerful clerics/adepts, but they should all have .

Yeah, I tend to agree - when statting eg a medieval-Catholic style monastery I'll typically make the Lay Brothers F0/Commoner/Expert types, while the Monks are C1/Adept/other Divine caster types. The Witch class is good for pagan Wise Women/Wise Men and 'hedge priest' types. And tribal Shamans should be casters.

NB: This is for a typical D&D world, where "what is believed in is real" - we believe priests have special powers, ergo they do. In a modernist Swords & Sorcery setting like Hyborea, most likely the priests are typically charlatans, their worshippers dupes, with actual magic - Sorcery - rare, foul, and un-natural. In an S&S setting most priests will indeed be non-spellcaster F0s/Experts, with the occasional Thulsa Doom sorcerous Jim Jones style cult leader.

 

[ProfessorCirno]

I'm fairly certain Eberron is where the "priest but not a cleric" idea was started, or at least formally brought into full. I don't think Eberron would've spent as much time as they did very explicitly stating that only the very top of the church - and not even all of them - were actual adventure class cleric types, if it was a standard idea. That said, I perfer the "priest but not a cleric" myself, personally.

But that could just be because I really, really like Eberron

 

[Philotomy Jurament]

I'm fairly certain Eberron is where the "priest but not a cleric" idea was started, or at least formally brought into full.

Depends on what you mean by "formally brought into full." The idea of "other" priests that aren't members of the Cleric class was published a long time before Eberron. I don't know if it's the first published example, but there's 1982's "Cloistered Cleric" article from Dragon. It said:

The AD&D game models its cleric after the medieval fighter-cleric, a la Templar or Hospitlar. Yet we are all aware that all clerics, then and now, do not meet that standard. The AD&D game does not take into account scholarly (sometimes called cloistered) clerics or brothers who are not ordained but have some clerical functions. I would like to fill in those two gaps...

 

[Psion]

Depends on what you mean by "formally brought into full." The idea of "other" priests that aren't members of the Cleric class was published a long time before Eberron. I don't know if it's the first published example, but there's 1982's "Cloistered Cleric" article from Dragon. It said:

As I recall, the cloistered cleric was severely powered down, but still could cast spells.

It's more akin to the adept than the expert.

EDIT: A quick look at my CD archive reveals it was very much like the adept indeed... had its own spell list, with fewer levels (though clerics in 1e only had 7th level spells, whereas the cloistered cleric had 6).

FWIW, I think the 3e cleric is way too warpriest-y.

 

[jdrakeh]

In any event, I believe a full-fledged priest who has no divine power at all isn't a priest.

I do hope that you're speaking purely in the context of D&D

 

[jeffh]

Was it not explicit in 2E FR, in its much-praised trilogy of books on the religions of the Realms, that in many cases the priesthood included a lot of non-Clerics, including, in at least some cases, non-adventurers? I could have sworn there was a paragraph or two on that very subject for each individual deity.

To a lesser extent I thought this was the case for at least some pantheons discussed in 2E Legends & Lore.

 

[Psion]

Was it not explicit in 2E FR, in its much-praised trilogy of books on the religions of the Realms, that in many cases the priesthood included a lot of non-Clerics, including, in at least some cases, non-adventurers? I could have sworn there was a paragraph or two on that very subject for each individual deity.

I suppose I could traipse downstairs and look, but as I recall, 2e FR considered clerics, druids, specialty priests, mystics, and crusaders, and possibly other classes in a "priesthood" listing. I don't recall any non-adventurer characters.