Good & Bad : Wizards

[Gort]

Wizard is listed as a controller, but I do not see a great deal of push/pull/slide in their repertoire.

Let's look at at-wills. Fighter gets Tide of Iron - an excellent at-will as it allows him to push an enemy 1 square when he hits them.

Wizard gets Thunderwave a far better at-will which allows him to push a bunch of enemies a number of squares equal to his Wisdom modifier. (so, usually about 3 if you want to be this kind of wizard)

Looks like a bunch of control right there. Not to mention other powers like Icy Rays which immobilise, slow, or otherwise debilitate enemies.

 

[Cadfan]

"Control" in 4e includes attacks which affect the enemy based on formation. Area of effects do this, forcing enemies to adopt different formations.

 

[im_robertb]

I have played a controller wizard in one LFR adventure. Here is how I fared in controlling the fights. The following text can be considered SPOILERS for those who haven't read/played DALE1-1 and don't want it spoiled.

SPOILERS BEGIN



Encounter 1:
Many enemies - fire beetles with AoE fire damage, a large tangler beetle, and an acid-spitting artillery beetle.

Won initiative, and opened by throwing down Grasping Shadows (encounter, vs will, area burst 1, makes damage & slow zone until end of your next turn) on multiple enemies, dealing some damage and slowing them. Despite this, the melee people rushed in - if they'd stayed back and readied actions for approaching enemies, the slowed ones would've been unable to attack in the first round. Instead, after they rush in, slowed enemies means they all end up on the same side of the melee-line rather than swarming over the sides of it. My next action I move up and Thunderwave 3 enemies, hitting 2 melee foes, and pushing them 2 squares over difficult terrain, out of melee, and into the Grasping Shadows area, slowing them. They ended up having to double-move to get back into melee. On successive rounds I focused on using Cloud of Daggers for good damage, and when an enemy was killed, it gave the fighters a sort of wall to back up against, so that an enemy who went for flanking would have to do it into the Cloud. Used my orb to extend such a cloud.

Skill Challenge 1:
A social skill challenge, trying to convince the guards who was really responsible for the beetles getting loose.

I got a success and some information with a nice Insight check on the first round. On the second, it was 5 successes, 2 failures, meaning my check would make the difference if it was a Complexity 3 challenge (which it was). I pulled off the win with a History check on local customs.

Encounter 2:
In a church with pews (difficult terrain), we fight a spectral cleric. Oh, and some of the squares are magically trapped and blow up when we step on them.

Won initiative again, opened with Illusory Ambush (At-will, vs will, damage and enemy gets -2 on attacks until end of your next turn). Then the fighter runs up and marks her. So she's at -2 to attack the fighter, and -4 to attack anyone else. (I wish we'd had a warlock: he could run up with concealment and yell 'minus 6!'). I'll extend that with my orb the next round. As people rush in and set of traps, I stay in the doorway and pelt her with Cloud of Daggers for straight damage, since I'd figured out that her Reflex defense wasn't as good as her Will. Once the fighter couldn't keep near her, as she backed up against a wall, so I threw down my Grasping Shadows to help him catch up.

Encounter 3:
More of the same. Won't get into the details. Also, I never used my daily (kept saving it for the **** hitting the fan).




END SPOILERS

 

[WalterKovacs]

Things wizards do:

(a) Multiple enemies in attacks ... they have some AoE's that are bigger both in damage and burst size than other classes have

(b) Zones. This stuff stays around ... using it along with stuff to move people around (doesn't even have to be you doing it) and you can keep tossing enemies back into the constant damage area

(c) Conjurations ... like the zones you have stuff like the Icy Grip or Flame Sphere that lets you, for the cost of keeping it going, constantly have something that does encounter power levels of damage that you can use effectively at-will.

(d) There is the whole orb of imposition thing ... you can stick someone with a save ends effect and make it hard for them to get rid of that effect ... that can be ongoing damage or the popular sleep, etc.

In general though, your control has to do with the ability to effect the terrain by creating zones, dropping area attacks and some stuff like that.

 

[Doctor Proctor]

Wizards are also a class where some of their effectiveness doesn't come in until later levels. They get a feat that allows them to use Close Blast attacks at range. This means that all of a sudden Thunderwave doesn't have to be something you use on enemies right in front of you. Now you can sit behind the Defender line and push enemies away to help keep your Defenders alive.

Later you'll also get an ability that allows you to remove squares from AoE effects. In combination with other PC's this can be devastating. Have your Fighter drop Come and Get It (or it's higher level equivalent) and then when it's your turn you can drop an AoE right on his head with no fear of hitting him. So you can actually work in conjuction with the Fighter to pull clump and hold enemies while you bombard them with AoE's.

Lastly, as others have said, you're looking at the idea of a "controller" wrong. If you want a class with lots of pushes, slides and pulls, there are other options. Fighters have lots of stuff that allows them to push enemies short distances, or pull allies closer, or help them move around enemies, etc... A Warlord has even more! I believe that the Rogue and Warlock also have some slides, etc... So if you want to push/pull/slide things, you need to play one of those classes, not the Wizard.

 

[MadLordOfMilk]

I personally never understood why stuff like Icy Terrain or Thunderwave really was all that useful. Let's face it, what's a 3-square push or difficult terrain going to do to stop full movement + charge distance? If anything they might even have an immediate reaction or something that lets them benefit off of getting pushed back. Outside of minion killing (which can really be accomplished pretty effectively with a dragonborn's racial power anyway), Wizard really seemed ineffective to me, at least at low levels.

 

[Runestar]

Thunderwave can be quite useful at epic levels, when a wizard with a high enough wis mod can use it to zig-zag a foe through a wall of fire multiple times.

 

[DracoSuave]

I personally never understood why stuff like Icy Terrain or Thunderwave really was all that useful. Let's face it, what's a 3-square push or difficult terrain going to do to stop full movement + charge distance? If anything they might even have an immediate reaction or something that lets them benefit off of getting pushed back. Outside of minion killing (which can really be accomplished pretty effectively with a dragonborn's racial power anyway), Wizard really seemed ineffective to me, at least at low levels.

In a game where combat advantage and proximity to opponents matters, the ability to, at will, have control over where the opponents are is VERY powerful.

Plus, Thunderwave+Staff of Thunderwave is a nice novablast of damage.

 

[Perun]

In my experience, the wizard is the class that comes with a lot of baggage from previous editions. The 4e wizard is, in many ways, a lot different than his counterparts from earlier editions, whereas the other classes have managed to retain a lot of their "identity".

For example, the wizards -- when compared to his 3.5 incarnation -- has lost almost all of his buffing spells and virtually all save-or-dies; and a lot of former utility spells are now rituals that aren't all that useful in battle or for getting out of battle (like various teleports).

While I'm quite comfortable with 4e wizard's "power level", I feel that the class lacks a certain "cool" element. I'm probably one of the very few people around that would have preferred if they stuck to the Golden Wyvern/Emerald Frost thing. I'd also have liked for the implements to play a greater role in the game (as implied in that old wizard preview article). As it stands now, the difference between he three wizard varieties (orb, staff, wand) is not all that significant.

Regards.

 

[yesnomu]

I personally never understood why stuff like Icy Terrain or Thunderwave really was all that useful. Let's face it, what's a 3-square push or difficult terrain going to do to stop full movement + charge distance? If anything they might even have an immediate reaction or something that lets them benefit off of getting pushed back. Outside of minion killing (which can really be accomplished pretty effectively with a dragonborn's racial power anyway), Wizard really seemed ineffective to me, at least at low levels.

Thunderwave's best use is either pushing enemies into bad places, readying it to push away an approaching enemy, or using it to avoid AoOs when you can't shift away. The push isn't necessarily that useful by itself, but even without a push, a close at-will is good to have.

The real advantage of Icy Terrain isn't the difficult terrain, it's the knocking prone so your meleeers can stab them in the back. Plus, it forces them to either attack with a disadvantage or use their move to stand, making it a bit like a weaker daze. It's been handy for me, especially with a rogue in the party.