Sustaining a power provokes OAs?

[Thanee]

How's my argument working for you, then, Caliban?

Please note, that the term "use" is never used in the context of sustaining a power, but only in the context of activating it.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Hypersmurf]

If you have an arguement to make, then make it.

I already did.

You then said that Freezing Cloud makes attacks, rather than the wizard making attacks.

If that's true, and the wizard is not making those attacks, Burning Blizzard does not apply; White Raven Onslaught does not apply; Warlord's Favor does not apply.

If the feat and those powers do apply to the attacks made when a creature enters Freezing Cloud, then the wizard is making the attacks. Which means either he's using an area power, in which case he provokes an OA every time a creature enters the Cloud, or he's not using an area power, which means Flaming Sphere doesn't provoke an OA every time it is used in subsequent rounds.

-Hyp.

 

[Caliban]

How's my argument working for you, then, Caliban?

Please note, that the term "use" is never used in the context of sustaining a power, but only in the context of activating it.

Bye
Thanee

My stance has never been that sustaining a power provokes an OA. That's the original poster's viewpoint.

My stance is that making an attack with a ranged power is "using" it in the context of provoking an OA, even if it's in subsequent rounds after you have sustained it.

 

[Caliban]

I already did.

You then said that Freezing Cloud makes attacks, rather than the wizard making attacks.

If that's true, and the wizard is not making those attacks, Burning Blizzard does not apply; White Raven Onslaught does not apply; Warlord's Favor does not apply.

If the feat and those powers do apply to the attacks made when a creature enters Freezing Cloud, then the wizard is making the attacks. Which means either he's using an area power, in which case he provokes an OA every time a creature enters the Cloud, or he's not using an area power, which means Flaming Sphere doesn't provoke an OA every time it is used in subsequent rounds.

-Hyp.

Or it means that those feats were applied to the power at the time you activated it (it's initial "use"), and remain in effect until the power goes away, whether it's the power making the attacks or you making the attacks.

 

[Thanee]

My stance has never been that sustaining a power provokes an OA. That's the original poster's viewpoint.

My stance is that making an attack with a ranged power is "using" it in the context of provoking an OA, even if it's in subsequent rounds after you have sustained it.

Ok, but that part about "use" is basically the foundation of what I have written above, so it should apply to your stance as well.

The Use a Power action is only for activating an action the first time. That's "using a power".

Anything else is "sustaining a power", "attacking with a power" or whatnot, but not "using a power".

The term "use" only ever gets used in that context in the book, as far as I'm aware.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Caliban]

Ok, but that part about "use" is basically the foundation of what I have written above, so it should apply to your stance as well.

The Use a Power action is only for activating an action the first time. That's "using a power".

Anything else is "sustaining a power", "attacking with a power" or whatnot, but not "using a power".

The term "use" only ever gets used in that context in the book, as far as I'm aware.

Bye
Thanee

Page 271-272, "Ranged Attack"

Provoke Opportunity Attacks: If you use a ranged power while adjacent to an enemy, that enemy can make an opportunity attack against you.

Page 272, "Area Attack"

Provoke Opportunity Attacks: If you use an area power while adjacent to an enemy, that enemy can make an opportunity attack against you.

While I'm aware that there is still room for debate, to me this indicates that making a ranged or area attack counts as using the power.


Furthermore, I sent these questions in to Customer Service a few days ago, based on my previous discussion with Hypersmurf:

Customer (Caliban)11/20/2008 07:45 PM

If you sustain a ranged power that creates a conjuration (such as Flaming Sphere or Bigby's Icy Grasp), do you provoke an OA from adjacent enemies if you attack with the power in subsequent rounds?

In other words, does it only provoke when you first use the power, or does it provoke every time you use the power to make an attack?

Does it matter if the power gives you the ability to make ranged attacks directly rather than createing a conjuration that makes the attacks for you?

Thank you

********************
Page Number: Page 59, page 160, page 290
Book Name: Player's Handbook (4e)

SubjectDo Ranged powers provoke an OA if you sustain them and attack again? Discussion Thread Response (Support Agent)11/21/2008 08:09 AM

Hello Caliban,

Thank you for contacting us. When you sustain a ranged power that creates a conjuration, you will provoke an Opportunity Attack from adjacent enemies when you attack with that power in subsequent rounds. It provokes every time your use the power to make an attack. It does not matter if the power gives you the ability to make ranged attacks directly rather than creating a conjuration that makes the attacks for you. I hope this information is useful.

Please let me know if you need anymore help!

Good Gaming!

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Marc
Online Response Crew
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To which I responded:

Customer (Caliban)11/21/2008 12:02 PMDoes this mean that the Wizard power Freezing Cloud (Area power that attacks each creature that starts it's turn in the cloud) would cause the wizard to provoke an OA whenever it makes an attack?

And they answered

Response (Support Agent)11/21/2008 01:53 PM

Caliban,

This email is to inform you that we have received your incident and have escalated it for further review. A representative should be contacting you concerning your incident in 24-48 hours or less. We apologize for this delay and appreciate your patience while we work to resolve this.

We would appreciate your feedback on the service we are providing you. Please click here to fill out a short questionnaire.

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Evan T.
Online Response Crew
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and then

Discussion Thread Response (Support Agent)11/21/2008 02:47 PM

Caliban,

Freezing cloud does not give you another attack, just a way to deal more damage so no it does not cause an opportunity attack.

Please let me know if you need anymore help!

We would appreciate your feedback on the service we are providing you. Please click here to fill out a short questionnaire.

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Chuck
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[Thanee]

Hmm, I guess the problem is, that something like attacking again with Flaming Sphere isn't really defined anywhere. It just says you can spend an action to attack again.

It's not using the power, as far as I can tell, therefore it should (by the so-called RAW) not provoke.

OTOH, I think it should provoke, as it makes sense, that it does.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Hypersmurf]

Given that they say "It does not matter if the power gives you the ability to make ranged attacks directly rather than creating a conjuration that makes the attacks for you", I call Bollocks on "Freezing cloud does not give you another attack, just a way to deal more damage".

"Another attack" is the exact phrase used by the text of Freezing Cloud.

-Hyp.

 

[xCruelx]

Given that they say "It does not matter if the power gives you the ability to make ranged attacks directly rather than creating a conjuration that makes the attacks for you", I call Bollocks on "Freezing cloud does not give you another attack, just a way to deal more damage".

"Another attack" is the exact phrase used by the text of Freezing Cloud.

-Hyp.

ahh, but NOW the Action matters. Flaming sphere provokes and freezing cloud doesnt is because the wizard is making the attack (spending an action of whatever type) a deciding to attack or not attack and actively acttacking.

With freezing cloud is a terrain effect represented by an attack roll and damage, its the environment, not the wizard who is attacking, the wizard only created the environment

The wizard has to do something to provoke, ie, make a ranhged attack etc etc... the freezing cloud damage at the start of a turn is a passive, ongoing effect, not a wizard attack

 

[Hypersmurf]

The wizard has to do something to provoke, ie, make a ranhged attack etc etc... the freezing cloud damage at the start of a turn is a passive, ongoing effect, not a wizard attack

So does he get the bonus from Warlord's Favor on the attack roll, if he's not making an attack?

-Hyp.