Raven Crowking
First Post
I'm not sure I would agree. Certainly, I have had players who disagreed, and I have also been a player in groups without a cleric.
RC
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Schroedinger's Wounding (Forked Thread: Disappointed in 4e)
- Thread starter GlaziusF
- Start date
I'm not sure I would agree. Certainly, I have had players who disagreed, and I have also been a player in groups without a cleric.
RC
Raven Crowking
First Post
Well, it certainly a different on a different scale: But not playing pun-pun is also suboptimal.
Playing any character that is a one-trick pony is suboptimal, no matter how good he is at that trick. At least, it's sub-optimal in the games I enjoy. YMMV.
RC
Scribble
First Post
Shrug. Not saying it wouldn't be fun... I've been in plenty of groups that didn't have a cleric... It was harder, and sometims we just ended up hiring an NPC cleric.
But still, optimal performance (especialy in a time sensative sandbox game) says you should ahve some sort of way to heal quickly.
Which is part of why I think they added roles to the game.
Raven Crowking
First Post
Optimal performance is based not only on what you get, but also what you have to give up to get it. I've played with clerics and without clerics. The more you play the game as a combat engine, the more damaged you get, the more you need a healer. That isn't the only way to approach problems, though.
RCFG includes magical healing, certainly, and I don't find it problematical within reason. I am a fan of the potion of healing, for instance, but not the cure light wounds wand. I'm not at all certain that I could parse the difference out rationally, but there certainly seems to be a difference to me.
RC
Mustrum_Ridcully
Legend
Well using pun-pun as an example is always a little tricky, but I am not he can be called a one-trick pony if he can gain almost or actual god-like status in a very short time period. Unless you consider gaining ultimate power just one-trick.
SteveC
Doing the best imitation of myself
I just have to say that we've finally gotten to the crux of the matter, after how long exactly? Your experiences in this regard differ from the vast majority of D&D players. It sounds to me like you're looking for something very different from the direction the game has been moving in since day one: each edition has had more healing and been more focused on getting the group back into the action faster.
What do I mean by that? Well in OE, starting clerics didn't have any healing spells at all. In AD&D they had cure light wounds, and received bonus spells by high wisdom. 2E had specialty priests and kits that allowed even more healing. In 3E we had the advent of the cheap cure light wounds wands (the spell also healed more) and spells like vigor which could be used out of combat to full heal the group. 4E has it's extended rest and healing surges. In each case there has been an emphasis on getting the group back to the fun stuff faster.
Now there isn't anything wrong with concentrating on having heroes either have lots of downtime or be walking wounded, it just isn't very post OE D&D.
--Steve
Scribble
First Post
Sure less combat = less need for a healer no doubt.
But if your group decided it liked combat, then not having a cleric was kind of sub-optimal. Which tended to mean someone in the party "had" to play a cleric (despite whatever archetype they might have originaly envisioned.)
The idea of roles kind of eliviates this. Your party can still heal (by choosing a leader) but a player doesn't have to sacrifice his concept too much.
I think thats why we've seen soo many classes falling into the leader role. Getting as many archetypes into the leader role allows the guy stuck playing the healer to have as many choices as possible.
Probably easier to justify your players not having as much healing on hand. "You can't carry all that healing" works better if it's multiple bottles and not just a stick.
doppelganger
Explorer
Hhave you played many ongoing (ie not one shots) D&D games with absolutely no magic healing at all?
Obryn
Hero
So, I have to ask - why weren't there any wands of Cure Light Wounds? Did you house-rule the game? Or was there just no interest? I can hardly imagine there being no interest; were I running a cleric, I'd pick up Craft Wand ASAP if Ye Olde Magic Shoppe were unavailable/nonexistent. Healsticks are just too useful.
If it's a house-rule, why is it different to house-rule 3e than it is to house-rule 4e? Neither one seems to fit your sandbox criterion.
It sounds like your 3e gameplay is pretty dramatically different from most peoples'.
-O
Mustrum_Ridcully
Legend
Maybe it's because RC and I have been sparring so long now... but this old news for me now.
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