Do you like XP costs for magic item creation?

[Pbartender]

Because yeah, this is how I've always seen it. Right from the first reading. So maybe it was (and is still?) naive of me to think it might've even been made that way for such a reason, and not for game balance and all that. . . but either way, it's still how it reads to me.

I always understood that to be the underlying inspiration fpr the rule. However...

I always saw it as another example of one of those things that's a really cool idea in a novel or a movie, that is exceptionally difficult to translate into a worthwhile game mechanic.

 

[Arnwyn]

Absolutely love it. One of the best innovations of 3e, as far as our particular group is concerned. We won't ever be changing it.

In fact, we're thinking of going so far as to significantly increase the amount of XP to create magic items, and vastly decrease the gp cost - frees up gp for use in things like labs (which we have created house-rules for), strongholds, ships, domain management, etc, while still keeping magic items under control within the campaign.

The Pathfinder method is stinky, AFAIC.

 

[Vegepygmy]

XP loss is so temporary that it could cripple the game at the same time. There really isn't a limit to the amount of XP you can make, and one character could sit and create a slew of higher level magic items for the party, then convert his level 1 self into a follower, and make a new character or quit.

Most of the criticisms of "crafting costs XP" I see make erroneous statements like these, which is why I don't pay them any mind. You can't lose so much XP crafting an item that you lose a level (PHB, page 88), so it isn't "level drain," and if you do fall behind the rest of the party, you make more XP than they do (another rule it seems many people don't know or don't follow), so you quickly catch back up.

Thus, "crafting costs XP" doesn't totally hose crafters (like permanent Con loss does), but it does impose some limit on crafting, and it makes sense in a Tolkien-esque fashion...so it works for me.

 

[Pbartender]

You can't lose so much XP crafting an item that you lose a level (PHB, page 88),...

This is, actually, one of my biggest problems with the 3rd Edition XP costs as is. This one rule produces some irritatingly unusual results.

To wit, a 4th level Wizard with 9,999 XP can scribe as many scrolls as he likes, for all practicle purposes. Feasibly, if he had the money for it, that Wizard could create more than 99,000 gp worth of magic items, before he started running out of usable XP.

A 5th level Wizard, however, with 10,001 XP could craft no more than a single 1st level scroll (or two cantrips).

There's enough quirks to the XP costs that I don't really like it as is. But I'll admit that I'm not certain there's a better alternative that gives the same stylistic feel.

 

[delericho]

I voted "yes", but the answer is really more like "sort of". I like the concept, but the implementation needs work.

The thing is, a character's raw XP total is only relevant right at the level-gain threshold. So, a character who spends 200 XP crafting items is either going to be penalised not at all (most of the time), or be a full level behind his peers (when the total happens to be just below the threshold). (Sean Reynolds went into this sort of thing is more detail, although he was talking about LA races at the time.)

Plus, due to a quirk in the XP rules, a character who crafts items may actually end up ahead of his peers as a result of this cost. If he happens to be just below the level threshold when XP is given out, he'll gain more than his peers due to his lower level. If the party also happens to be gaining a large number of XP at the time, this disparity may actually completely negate the XP cost paid.

As far as comparisons goes, I think it should work somewhat like Negative Levels, and not Level Drain.

That is a spectacular idea. "A character who creates a minor magic item is considered to have a negative level until he attains one milestone; a character who creates a mid-level magic items is considered to have a negative level until he attains two milestones; and a character who creates a major magic item is considered to have a negative level until he attains three milestones"? (Apologies for mixing 3e and 4e terminology. I'm sure you get the idea.)

 

[Derren]

That is a spectacular idea. "A character who creates a minor magic item is considered to have a negative level until he attains one milestone; a character who creates a mid-level magic items is considered to have a negative level until he attains two milestones; and a character who creates a major magic item is considered to have a negative level until he attains three milestones"? (Apologies for mixing 3e and 4e terminology. I'm sure you get the idea.)

I don't think having a small penalty for 2 combats will really stop a character from creating magical items.

 

[Thanee]

I like it themantically. The wizard is placing part of his strength into the item, depleting his future power in return for some item of utility.

Yep, that's also how I see it.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Thanee]

There's enough quirks to the XP costs that I don't really like it as is. But I'll admit that I'm not certain there's a better alternative that gives the same stylistic feel.

A possibility: You lose the XP (even beyond the level line), but do not actually lose a level... just takes longer to get to the next.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Treebore]

Yep, that's also how I see it.

Bye
Thanee

I must be on everyones ignore list, or most people don't read entire threads like I do. My last suggestion maintains this feel, limits how much magic items can be produced by a spellcaster, and doesn't use XP's while doing it.

Another thing that bugs me about spellcasters losing XP's from making items. MAking magic items is the Iconic feature of these classes, and the rules are designed for them to lose XP's?!? I find that very contradictory. If anything should earn them XP's making magic items should be it. Just like a thief does from disarming traps, etc...

So personally I will limit them based on their CON and give them XP's for making the items. Probably equal to 1/10 of the GP cost. That way I still get the "They imbue the item with a portion of their life force" feel and not have spell caster players worrying about slowing down their XP progression. In fact it will help speed it up.

Not to mention give me a better "In game world" explanation why there are so many high level spell casters around.

 

[Aus_Snow]

MAking magic items is the Iconic feature of these classes, and the rules are designed for them to lose XP's?!? I find that very contradictory. If anything should earn them XP's making magic items should be it. Just like a thief does from disarming traps, etc...

On the contrary, the iconic feature for spellcasters is, well, casting spells. They can't even do item creation automatically. OK, scrolls, yes. But nothing else.