Undead PC's

[irdeggman]

Just what is it that you think the Daylight spell does to a vampire?

The same thing that daylight does (minus the destruction part spell says it won't destroy them but the other parts still apply).

Exposing any vampire to direct sunlight disorients it: It can take only a single move action or attack action and is destroyed utterly in the next round if it cannot escape.

 

[Marred_Bard]

I'm not sure if the issue of class-level imbalance has been entirely addressed, but the two undead should be significantly behind in terms of 'class' power, which should open up weaknesses in the group. Nevertheless, the anti-undead suggestions all work if you want to make it plain to the PCs that their characters are becoming unbalanced, but I liked Stormborn's response: in-world, these undead beings should feel pressured, even if they are among the most powerful in the realm.

Other resistance groups should be 'reluctant' (some of them outwardly hostile) to horrors out of childhood nightmares taking a stance against the dark invading powers, even to the point of self-destruction. The other undead lords should be upset at the 'press' they're getting, and the dark forces should certainly make efforts to stop them.

I guess my point is that even minor tactical challenges can seem more daunting if the world feels less forgiving of mistakes. The vampire may be able to be healed nearly instantaneously, but has to return to his coffin, and the lich to his phylactery. Should either item become the focus of an enemy, or misunderstanding between allies, these are serious threats to their well-being. They're @15th-level, which makes them powerful, but it only takes a single paladin (even low-level) bent on retribution for crimes real or imagined to begin following their trail, sheltered by a world which won't side with monsters against justice, and the party would be put in a position of peril. Should he find the phylactery, or come upon them during the day, the party would be divided in how to respond, their own evil natures conflicting.

 

[Shin Okada]

The same thing that daylight does (minus the destruction part spell says it won't destroy them but the other parts still apply).

Sunlight and some light source as blight as daylight are different. In case of some creatures such as Drow, they are vulnerable against any blight light. For example, drow's racial traits says,

Light Blindness: Abrupt exposure to bright light (such as sunlight or a daylight spell) blinds drow for 1 round. On subsequent rounds, they are dazzled as long as they remain in the affected area.

But in case of vampire, it specifically says "direct sunlight". So Daylight spell will cause no particular effects against vampires, like other non-sunlight light sources including sunrod and most other [light] spells.

 

[irdeggman]

But in case of vampire, it specifically says "direct sunlight". So Daylight spell will cause no particular effects against vampires, like other non-sunlight light sources including sunrod and most other [light] spells.

SRD Daylight spell

The object touched sheds light as bright as full daylight in a 60-foot radius, and dim light for an additional 60 feet beyond that. Creatures that take penalties in bright light also take them while within the radius of this magical light. Despite its name, this spell is not the equivalent of daylight for the purposes of creatures that are damaged or destroyed by bright light.
If daylight is cast on a small object that is then placed inside or under a light- proof covering, the spell’s effects are blocked until the covering is removed

It sepcifically says that creatures that take penalties in bright light also take them in daylight spell but that for purposes of damage or destruction it does not work.

I believe that vampires take penalties in bright light "as in full daylight" but do not take damage or destruction.

 

[Shin Okada]

It sepcifically says that creatures that take penalties in bright light also take them in daylight spell but that for purposes of damage or destruction it does not work.

I believe that vampires take penalties in bright light "as in full daylight" but do not take damage or destruction.

But vampire's descriptive text does not say that they take penalties in bright light. They are just weak against sunlight.

 

[Alasgore]

the Libris Mortis states the effects of spells on sunlight sensitive undead in chapter 2.
I've loaned my copy out but if I remember correctly the daylight spell counts ad daylight as does the sunburst but not the sunbeam (I may be wrong).

 

[Shin Okada]

I checked the Libris Mortis and found that in Chapter 1, P.20. Actually, it clearly states that,

For instance, despite its name, the Daylight spell doesn't have any special effect against undead, even those vulnerable to sunlight.

 

[pawsplay]

A strict reading would suggest that not only does daylight not disorient vampires, but that a Drow vampire would not be dazzled, either, since the spell does count for the purposes of creatures that are destroyed by daylight.

EDIT: I forget to be helpful. Uh, Radiant Servant of Pelor with one of the feats from LM that lets you shake off negative levels. Wielding a ghost touch bane vs. undead morningstar.

Also, here's a minor artifact from my campaign: The Crown of Eternal Majesty. It grants a +4 bonus to Cha checks and Cha-based skills versus the undead, allows the wearer to use animate dead once/2 weeks, and casts control undead 1/day with a caster level of 20 and uses the wearer's casting stat, like a staff.

How about some comedy gold? A dozen or so elven fighter/wizards using wands of disrupt undead.

 

[Shin Okada]

A strict reading would suggest that not only does daylight not disorient vampires, but that a Drow vampire would not be dazzled, either, since the spell does count for the purposes of creatures that are destroyed by daylight.

That is not true. In case of Drow, it's "Light Blindness" says

Light Blindness: Abrupt exposure to bright light (such as sunlight or a daylight spell) blinds drow for 1 round. On subsequent rounds, they are dazzled as long as they remain in the affected area.

So, they are dazzled by any bright light, including Daylight spell. That trait is simply different from the weakness of Vampire.

And Vampire template does not remove this trait from a former drow. So, a Drow Vampire is dazzled by Daylight spell, not because he/she is a vampire, but because she still has "Light Blindness" trait.

 

[robertliguori]

You're going to want divide and conquer. Against the lich, you'll want an extended ambush, with waves, reinforcements, and multiple methods to prevent him from fleeing. The idea isn't to destroy him, but to force him to use his spells, then bind him hand and jaw (hope he took Still and Silent Spell), then toss him into a coffin, seal it up with something nice and impermeable like mud turned to stone, then store the coffin somewhere ing secure.

Against the vampire, you'll want a powerful alpha strike. Vampires are formidable combatants, but if you hit them hard and fast with special preparations (holy symbols, garlic, and mirrors to limit his mobility, a bunch of +1 undead-bane silver arrows with Flaming Arrow cast on the bunch and distributed to a corps of low-to-mid-level archers, alchemist's fire, tanglefoot bags, and the like), and he will likely go down hard. If you can lock his gaseous form down (or follow it to his coffin), that will be the end of the vampire.

Finally, look at the party's ECL. The lich is 4 levels higher than his hit dice indicate; the vampire eight. The effective party level is actually 16.5 or so; start throwing accordant CRs at them if you want to challenge them. Also, you might consider powering up the druid a little (and the spellthief a lot), then start throwing the kitchen sink at the party and see how they respond.