Undead PC's

[meltinbradley]

hey

Shin Okada- Yes, they are. I am beginning to agree with you. I am a 2nd edition gamer at heart. I just love to DM, everyone was into 3.5 so im still learning the rules. I think its important to give the PC's what they want, or ATLEAST a chance to get something they want. I feel holding to many restrictions takes away from the game, and usually I can figure out ways of making it work out for myself. Just lately they have been killing things ive been throwing at them with ease. But ive been doing research and have been reading your posts and have been getting ideas.
Irdeggman- Well, the world was created before I met any of these gamers. There isnt much undead in my world. There are no more then 10 vampires in the whole world and one of them is a PC. There are no more then 3 liches in my world and all are unknown except for the PC lich who is out there in the spot light causing mayhem.
The reason why the levels are so low is because all the gods are young, the old gods died or left, so things started over.
But like i say, what you do now will decide what happens letter.
Now people know about liches and vampires in the world, so there are and will be NPCs who will begin to study and learn about theres creatures weaknesses, I will have to raise the standard for mages and clerics.
There are outsiders and spell casting creatures, but its not common knowledge, most creatures like that are considered legend. For example, good dragons remain shapechanged as humanoids not letting others know of their true nature.
I have recently created some NPC celestials who are going to appear on the world and do some serious damage. The PC's reckless behavior has not gone unnoticed.
Stormborn- I really liked your ideas!
Rogue- You are right. But the fact that the lich has a negative energy burst helps bring the vampire up to full hit points really quick. Once I get rid of the lich the vampire wont be as powerful. But them two together makes them a deadly combination.

 

[akbearfoot]

seems off to me also so hear there are no NPCs above 10th level, yet there is some humongous evil conquering the world....just seems sort of stagnant to say that there is noone else around who is actively seeking ways to thwart it.

I mean I can respect wanting to control/limit access to magic items and spells, but when you give the PCs free access to basically anything they want then it throws game balance and perspective completely out of whack.


In my mind there is not a paladin or cleric of a non-evil diety in the 'world' that would or could tolerate the presence of a lich...period....a vampire maybe...but the paladin or cleric goes 'detect evil' and gets hit by an aura of overwhelming evil.

Also its actually kind of cute, but entirely unreasonable to me that a lich would get doll as a phylactery. Even more unreasonable that he would give it to a child and not keep constant tabs on it....I mean everyone knows Barack obama stole the Hope diamond to make it his Phylactery, but still....lol

And 10th level cleric with the Sun domain with an amulet of undead turning and a couple feats and spells, can turn undead of around 20HD probably even more, and automatically destroy them.

A Hunter of the Dead would require a few more levels than you say your NPCs are allowed to have, but their main special ability is when they kill an undead it is destroyed permanently...even liches.

 

[Starbuck_II]

I mean everyone knows Barack obama stole the Hope diamond to make it his Phylactery, but still....lol

What no he didn't it was his label pin: didn't you notice he stopped wearing it?

It wasn't about patriotism but survival.

 

[Stormborn]

Irdeggman- Well, the world was created before I met any of these gamers. There isnt much undead in my world. There are no more then 10 vampires in the whole world and one of them is a PC. There are no more then 3 liches in my world and all are unknown except for the PC lich who is out there in the spot light causing mayhem.
...
Now people know about liches and vampires in the world, so there are and will be NPCs who will begin to study and learn about theres creatures weaknesses, I will have to raise the standard for mages and clerics.
...
Stormborn- I really liked your ideas!

Glad you did. But your comment above made me think of something else.

Only a few liches and vampires and now the PCs have gone and made them well known? If I was a lich I would NOT be happy about that. I would go out and find this guy that has made my life difficult, get rid of him, and go back into living my quiet life for a few decades until everyone had forgotten about me.

Vampires and liches should be pretty determined to get rid of these guys, and who would better know how to overcome their weaknesses? Especially some really old vampires. I wouldn't want to go all White Wolf, but I can easilly see some trully ancient vampire lord, one with magic items to overcome the traditional weaknesses showing up and saying "You have broken the Covenant of the Ancients, you must pay the price. What? You didn't know about the Covenant? Too bad."

 

[Bladesong]

DId anyone suggest the obvious, easy ways to wear them down like positive energy traps, magic items of healing, rangers with undead slaying weapons and negative energy resistance (even a couple of 10th level rangers outfitted like this would be formidable for a couple of undead). Of course they cannot fast heal/regenerate from acid or fire. Melf's acid arrow does not allow a save.
There are a lot of ways to challenge them...even ways that won't hurt the two non-undead.

 

[meltinbradley]

hmm

AKbearfoot- There are no known spell casters divine and arcane above tenth level. There are secret societies, hermits, and others who are well above 10th level. There are also many fighters, thieves, barbarians, rangers, etc...above 10th level anywhere. There is a very powerful group who is determined to stop the evil. It all would really make sense if I broke it down, but its to much info.
As for the lich and his doll...Well, you would have to take that up with the PC, that was his wish. But regardless the girl was murdered and a NPC has the doll now. So the lich I have under control when I need him to be. He's actually probably going to be destroyed in the next few sessions. We game tonight! "yeah!"
Hunter of the dead? what book is that in? I want to check that out...Libris Mortis?
Stormborn- I have thought of that, again, very nice. And it will happen, but now is not the time. But the few liches and vampires that do exist prefer to remain nonexistent, and this is attracting a lot of attention.
Bladesong- I have just started on that path. Thanks again fellahs.

 

[Dragonwriter]

Hunter of the dead? what book is that in? I want to check that out...Libris Mortis?

No, Hunter of the Dead is Complete Warrior.

Libris Mortis does have a couple other anti-undead PrCs, though... Namely the Master of Radiance (uber-sunbeams and such...) and the Sacred Purifier (bonuses to turning. Greater Turnings, positive energy bursts). Radiance is more Druid-y and Purifier is Cleric or Paladin only due to the requirement of "Turn Undead' for the class.

And there are some things in Libris Mortis that would give you other anti-undead resources. Just be very careful about letting your already out-of-control undead players get ahold of it...

 

[akbearfoot]

It is through DM fiat and only through DM fiat that there are no high level spell casters...if you simply do not want there to be high level spell casters in the world then that is ok. But realize that it means the PCs can litteraly rule the planet if they want to in a couple more levels because fighters and barbarians can't touch high levle spell casters in power. If the PCs can adventure and gain experience then so can NPCs...And its entirely possible for the 10th level guys to go from 10th to 14th level in a short period of time. Look how fast PCs level up when they delve into dungeons. The only thing keeping the game world from growing and evolving as the PCs do is the DM.

If there are only 3 liches in the whole world...where did your PC gain the knowlege to know how to transform himself? It doesen't sound like something a simple knowlege check would cover. You'r talking about something that only a few other creatures in the history of your game world have acomplished, and they most likely didn't put their pictures on the front page of the daily bugle when they accomplished it. Seems like you handed it over to the PC willy nilly like he went down to K-mart and bough the Lich-juice on blue light special.

Not to mention the imbalance it creates in party level...If they were 12th level when this happened then the vampire spawn guy can't gain any levels until he goes EPIC. And the druid and spellthief are now many levels behind them in power level....Which isnt too bad for a druid really since they rock so hardcore, but the poor spellthief should be shaking in his boots. Anything you throw at them that could possibly challenge the undead guys would completely wipe the floor with a spellthief.

 

[meltinbradley]

well

Akbearfoot- Again, there are high level spell casters, but youre not going to find them in any common city.
But there is some truth in what you say, I feel I did make some mistakes, but there is also so much more that I do not want to bore you with about my world.
The lich learned because he was originally a Tiefling from the outerplanes and learned of that knowledge from beings not of that world.
And you are totally right about the imbalance between the PC's. If anything, that is what I dont like the most. But then again, those PC's were offered any class or race with a level box.
Dragon writer- Thanks, I have that book, ill look into it.

 

[Drowbane]

Daylight spell - 3rd level Brd, Clr, Drd, Pal, Wiz/Sor.

Works wonders against a vampire (liches have no specific weakness to daylight though).

Should be common enough to get (only requires a 5th or 6th level character to cast)

Just what is it that you think the Daylight spell does to a vampire?