Longsword Finesse bummer

[Ipissimus]

I think shuriken are a waste for rogues after the two fisted shooter feat came out.
The only benefit I see from using a shuriken now is the +1 to hit, I rarely have a hard time hitting with my rogue as it is, oh yeah and I may just replace quick draw with something else now that I no longer worry about getting a shuriken out, I just walk around with my dagger and hand crossbow out already. If I need a potion it may take me one extra minor action that round compared to quick draw but I can take improved initiative instead or some other feat at this point.

Improved Initiative is definitely a competitive feat for Quick Draw. It's a difference in play style, I like Quick Draw because I pair it with Awareness. If you're not as paranoid as I am and it works for you, more power to you. Also, I like hitting more over doing more damage, again a personal thing. I don't really think that, when you average out damage dealt, there's much difference in output over time.

Edit: To expand on my reasoning, I don't pay much attention to the damage dealt on a crit. It's only going to matter 5% of the time and can't be relied upon, though it has a certain wow factor. I put my faith into dealing more damage on average, as I said before. For the Hand Crossbow, you're losing +1 to hit for a possible +1-2 damage and a greater range. Personally, I play very aggressively, so the extra range isn't an issue for me and I don't attack at range much in the first place so the +1 to hit appeals to me more.

 

[Ipissimus]

..how would it make Rapier outmoded?

Without the SA penalty, why would you take WP: Rapier over Longsword Finesse? You wouldn't because the Longsword gives you an advantage, however minor, over the rapier by being Versatile. The Rapier wielding Eladrin Rogue then becomes extinct the way Longsword wielding Eladrin Rogues were.

One thing I like about 4e is that the feats are very competitive. WP: Rapier, Longsword Finesse, 2-Weapon Fighting/Defense, etc. in choosing which option I want to go with I feel like I'm making my character unique and giving him personality while remaining competitive. So unlike 3e where you felt like an idiot for taking feat X for fluff reasons over the mechanically advantageous feat Y.

 

[Benly]

Without the SA penalty, why would you take WP: Rapier over Longsword Finesse?

Nimble Blade, Wraithblades, Blade of Night, Thieving weapon, basically any sort of rogue-focused melee feat or enchantment. It opens up unconventional options but cuts off a number of quite good conventional ones.

 

[Saeviomagy]

Without the SA penalty, why would you take WP: Rapier over Longsword Finesse? You wouldn't because the Longsword gives you an advantage, however minor, over the rapier by being Versatile. The Rapier wielding Eladrin Rogue then becomes extinct the way Longsword wielding Eladrin Rogues were.

Considering the existence of two weapon fighting and two weapon defense, versatile is not that great a bonus.

The longsword would have the following benefits
1. At heroic tier, taking the eladrin feat for +2 damage instead of weapon focus.
2. Heavy blade opportunity
3. +1 to damage if you don't take twf
4. Different selection of enchantments

The rapier would have the following benefits
1. Nimble blade
2. Weapon focus applies to ranged attacks too, and is superior to eladrin feat at epic
3. TWF and TWD
4. Different selection of enchantments

Oh, also people are forgetting that pretty much every rogue will have backstabber, making it a loss of 4.5 damage on average instead of 3.5.

 

[Istar]

Why cant you use the Eladrin Feat for +2 Damage and Weapon Focus ?

 

[Mort_Q]

Why cant you use the Eladrin Feat for +2 Damage and Weapon Focus ?

They both grant feat bonuses. Bonuses of the same type don’t add together (or stack)*.

*PH 192