Battlerager....Overpowered?

[Mengu]

Dwarf rager in plate with longsword is a pretty broken defender. Tried one out at 5th level. Here is the build (at 5th):

Str 18
Con 18
Dex 10
Int 8
Wis 15
Cha 10

Plate, Toughness, Dwarf Stoneblood
Tide of Iron
Cleave
Shield Bash
Comeback Strike
No Opening
Probing Attack
Crack the Shell

We had a party of only 3, with a human tactical warlord, and a halfling rogue.

Against melee opponents, we had no trouble at all. Against artillery, we did have to go through some healing resources because we could only pin one of them down at a time, and they had no trouble hitting my reflex (that's the only time I wished I had an invigorating power). But we didn't run into a lot of critters with range. I did not miss the +1 weapon talent bonus. 6 temporary hitpoints every time you are hit is huge. Between high AC and temp HP's, not to mention a healthy supply of hitpoints to begin with, I was just too difficult to wear down.

I would probably have built this character a little differently if it wasn't for a one shot adventure, but I can't imagine any other fighter option to be a better defender than this, and I've seen a good few different fighter builds in action.

 

[Saeviomagy]

I had cleave and also tide of iron (human fighter). Surprisingly, I didn't use them way more often than sure strike.

Then unless you spent most rounds only being able to attack a single, very low hit point target, the statistics say you did yourself an injustice.

 

[Pickles JG]

The other side of the brokenness of this build is in comparison to a Barbarian. Taking a Warforged I was going to try out in LFR (Gondsman that is). the same stats work for a battlrager as for a Barbarian.

Str 18
Con 18
Dex 12
Int 10
Wis 8
Cha 12

Take Chain proficiency & use a Maul. This does less damage than a Battlerager using Brash strike & is -2 to hit at the cost of combat advantage. The Battlerager can take plate proficiency to compensate - fully vs AC. Or he can take an offensive feat to get the Battlerager bonus damage while wearing chain.

The Battlerager gets his pool of temp HP & his challenge features. The Barbarian gets his suite of barbarian abilities - Temps on a kill, Free attacks on crits, free charges, generally rages boost damage too. These will make the barbarian slightly more offensive but are less use defensively than free temp HP. I think his powers generally do a little bit more damage & have less healing cf the battlerager.

All in all though the comparison makes the Barbarian pretty sad. I am rather depressed about this power creep in 4e already - double swords, battleragers & tempests (who largely make 2 handers obsolete). I hope they have the balls to errata some of this stuff.

 

[abyssaldeath]

The other side of the brokenness of this build is in comparison to a Barbarian. Taking a Warforged I was going to try out in LFR (Gondsman that is). the same stats work for a battlrager as for a Barbarian.

Str 18
Con 18
Dex 12
Int 10
Wis 8
Cha 12

Take Chain proficiency & use a Maul. This does less damage than a Battlerager using Brash strike & is -2 to hit at the cost of combat advantage. The Battlerager can take plate proficiency to compensate - fully vs AC. Or he can take an offensive feat to get the Battlerager bonus damage while wearing chain.

The Battlerager gets his pool of temp HP & his challenge features. The Barbarian gets his suite of barbarian abilities - Temps on a kill, Free attacks on crits, free charges, generally rages boost damage too. These will make the barbarian slightly more offensive but are less use defensively than free temp HP. I think his powers generally do a little bit more damage & have less healing cf the battlerager.

All in all though the comparison makes the Barbarian pretty sad. I am rather depressed about this power creep in 4e already - double swords, battleragers & tempests (who largely make 2 handers obsolete). I hope they have the balls to errata some of this stuff.

Don't forget that the Barbarian gets bonus THP from Recuperating Strike while raging. Those encounters you get a ton of THP.

 

[Stalker0]

Well after a few sessions of trying out my fighter as a battlerager, my DM and I both agreed it was overpowered.

We had a fight tonight that consisted of about half minions and half regular leveled stuff. It was a hard fight, so there was twice the number of guys as normal.

My 16 con fighter just couldn't die. I was surrounded for half the fight, and I could take wave after wave of attacks with no issue, I've had to get healed far less often then before, and...I'm just that much more awesome.

Compared to the +1 attack bonus (which I did track to see how often it came up) there's no comparison.

So I'll be converting my fighter back, but I'll still be trying out some of the new powers in the book.

 

[Obryn]

We had a fight tonight that consisted of about half minions and half regular leveled stuff. It was a hard fight, so there was twice the number of guys as normal.

Yeah, a fight with a ton of minions makes the Battlerager really, really powerful.

Did anyone concentrate on you with Ranged attacks?

-O

 

[eamon]

We had a fight tonight that consisted of about half minions and half regular leveled stuff. It was a hard fight, so there was twice the number of guys as normal.

My 16 con fighter just couldn't die. I was surrounded for half the fight, and I could take wave after wave of attacks with no issue, I've had to get healed far less often then before, and...I'm just that much more awesome.

Compared to the +1 attack bonus (which I did track to see how often it came up) there's no comparison.

You may have mentioned it before, but what level fighter was this?

 

[Mengu]

You may have mentioned it before, but what level fighter was this?

I don't know about Stalker0's fighter, but I've had the exact same experience with a 5th level Con 18 Dwarf Fighter.

 

[Stalker0]

Yeah, a fight with a ton of minions makes the Battlerager really, really powerful.

Did anyone concentrate on you with Ranged attacks?

-O

Yeah, I had three archers with pack attack shooting at me. They were doing solid damage, but 3 off each hit just adds up so quickly.

My fighter is 7th btw. THF with scale armor, big strength and big con.

 

[mach1.9pants]

Yeah, I had three archers with pack attack shooting at me. They were doing solid damage, but 3 off each hit just adds up so quickly.

My fighter is 7th btw. THF with scale armor, big strength and big con.

I don't get ya, how does the 3 off each hit work with a ranged attack?