Dragon 370 - Invoker Preview

[Cadfan]

I didn't even catch that! A bummer, really... other than flavor of saying there's a giant fire angel fighting on your behalf, how is summoning any different than what could be done with a sustained zone or something of that effect?

It makes opportunity attacks.

I know that's a far cry from having a full stat line, but its something.

I wonder if maybe Summoned creatures might use some derivation of the summoner's stats for attacks. Perhaps use the summoner's defenses and work similar to minions? Have a feat (or more) that let you up those defenses (say +2 to AC for summoned creatures) or

That's the solution I used for my Illusory Double mechanic in my hexblade revision. Here's what I encountered with it- basically, you can only use the "has the caster's stat but is a minion" solution if you expect the summoned creature to have a very, very, VERY short lifespan. That was perfect for me- I was creating a class specialization called the "path of splinters" that was themed after the hexblade splintering off shadowy doubles of himself during combat. It was an explicit design choice to make the illusory doubles short lived, and I balanced around it. But believe me. They end up very, very short lived.

You could also give them hp equal to a healing surge. Or require you to spend a healing surge to cast the spell, and give them hp equal to your bloodied value. That's actually the solution I like most, but I'm not sure its going to be used.

 

[thecasualoblivion]

Summons don't need a statblock if they use your AC, Fort, Ref, and Will and they have some sort of variation on your HP total, as in they start play with HP equal to your surge value, your bloodied value, or your full HP total. They could also share your HP total, but Invokers are a little on the fragile side.

For movement, I expect summons to work like Ranger beast companions in that they move when you move.

As for duration, depending on if they have HP and can be attacked, I wouldn't be surprised if they stuck around until killed. While that wouldn't surprise me, I think its going to end up lasting until the end of the encounter.

 

[Cadfan]

One thing is for certain:

No invoker should be without the Astral Fire feat.

But that requires dexterity and charisma, both of which are disfavored stats.

 

[rowport]

I am a bit surprised that most folks are comparing the Invoker to (cloistered) cleric. I can see the divine soul influence. But, divine summoning says "druid" to me.

 

[Cadfan]

I'm pretty sure the Insightful Preservation feat improves your Preservation Covenant Manifestation from 1 to Int spaces. That fits naming conventions and previous design decisions.

 

[SpydersWebbing]

I think Invoker's gonna be one of those classes that looks kinda bland in theory, and then awesome when used in-game. Combining any of these powers with the covenants makes for some very interesting and unique powers.

Overall, I think the class is at least an 8 out of 10, and that's before we see the rest of the levels.

 

[BarkingDeathSquirrel]

Several of the at-wills of this class are insane...

Grasping Shards - This one's the biggest offender IMHO. Take the best part of Ray of Frost (the slowing effect), make it an area burst 1 instead of single target, change the damage type to one that's less common as a resistance and MUCH more common as a vulnerability... and reduce the damage ever so slightly.

Like anyone ever used Ray of Frost for the damage. Even worse, at epic tier, the gap between the damage gets a lot shorter thanks to the 1d10+Wis damage upgrade (compared to 2d6+Int at epic for Ray of Frost, to only a single target to boot).

Divine Bolts - Comparable to Scorching Burst, in a way... does the same damage, similar range. Scorching Burst has the potential to hit more targets, but it's a heck of a lot easier to make maximum use of this power, and you never have to worry about collateral damage to boot. The Wizard doesn't get a chance for anything similar until Lightning Bolt... which is a level 7 encounter power...

Still, Scorching Burst/Divine Bolts are fairly even in my book... at least until...

Vanguard's Lightning - Ugh. WTH? This is a blatant Scorching Burst++ power. Same range, area, damage, and everything... but it deals a damage type that shows up less as a resistance/immunity... AND it does additional damage to the targets if they make opportunity attacks. Sure, that's pretty situational... but it's still something extra on top of the already fairly useful Scorching Burst...

So... not only do Invokers get a more "accurate" version of scorching burst... they also get a just plain better version of it too... *shakes head*

The last two powers that count as basic attacks also rub Magic Missile (and Eldritch Blast) the wrong way too...

Overall, I like the Invoker (the silly anti-primodial attitude, heavy armor, and not using holy symbols, notwithstanding, of course...)... but the At-Wills just... rub me the wrong way, I guess.

 

[Obryn]

but the At-Wills just... rub me the wrong way, I guess.

That's a trend I've noticed, particularly with the Swordmage.

Newer classes seem to get beefier at-wills, but weaker Encounter/Daily powers.

-O

 

[gribble]

Newer classes seem to get beefier at-wills, but weaker Encounter/Daily powers.

Yes and no. While some at-wills are definitely better than others under certain circumstances, and some are even mathematically better than others (careful strike vs twin strike I'm looking at you), I'm pretty sure this is the first time we've seen an exact copy of another classes power which has an additional effect. I.e.: it's strictly superior under all circumstances.

And I'm not sure I like that... it's the first 100% undeniable power creep in 4e. You can't really argue that it's balanced because the class gets weaker encounter/daily powers, because with multiclass feats a character can easily negate that disadvantage.

One thing is for certain:

No invoker should be without the Astral Fire feat.

I disagree, at least from an optimisation perspective. In order to get this feat an Invoker would have to neglect boosting his primary or secondary ability scores. I wouldn't do that for +1 damage on some powers... especially given that boosting the primary/secondary stats will likely provide +1 damage on just as many powers and provide other benefits...

From a fluff/background perspective though it seems entirely appropriate.

 

[mearls]

When comparing at-wills for controllers, the wizard has some issues. His at-wills focus more on damage than control. The consensus is that controllers need a little more, well, control in their at-wills than we've handed out so far.

Vanguard's lightning is what I'd see as a baseline controller at-will, with scorching burst slightly *below* baseline. That little extra bit on vanguard's lightning is precisely the kind of thing that makes controllers go - they limit/mess up the enemy's plans.

Now, this may seem pretty annoying - WotC released stuff that was too weak! However, I think it's actually a strength of the meta systems of 4e. We've never before had the ability to so clearly compare classes/roles and, when necessary, make adjustments. It's a lot easier to listen to feedback, gather hard data, and make comparisons between powers when we have a unified power scale.

The interesting thing is that this issue really only rests in the at-wills. Encounter and daily powers are fine for the wizard.

The controller role is perhaps the one that took the longest to really develop. There's a reason why there's only one in the PH. For a long while, the role was defined by its ability to attack multiple foes. That definition never sat well, since it clearly steps on other roles and archetypes. We'd never want to prevent rangers from firing multiple arrows, or a fighter from striking everyone adjacent to him.

Over time, the controller definition morphed into the opposite of the leader. If the leader sets up his allies and encourages teamwork, the controller screws up his enemies and hinders their ability to work together. The area damage aspect of the controller does play into that (it makes bunching up a bad idea) but in practice controllers need a little more to embrace their role.

It's a subtle point, and in the grand scheme of things I don't think a PH 1 wizard is crippled compared to the PH 2 classes, but it is a sign of the subtle adjustments we're likely to make to the game going forward.