My B&N has Open Grave...

[FireLance]

I find that really annoying. To put something in there just to say "Your players shouldn't use this and yous hould go to great lengths in order to discourage them from using it."

Mind you, the artifact rules might be a good way to handle a graft. Let the disadvantages slowly outweigh the advantages (maybe you accumulate an extra disadvantage for every level you gain), and the "Moving On" section practically writes itself!

 

[frankthedm]

I find that really annoying. To put something in there just to say "Your players shouldn't use this and you should go to great lengths in order to discourage them from using it."

That's how Bad Things^tm like lycanthropy and vampirism should be treated.

 

[The_Fan]

I too am interested in the Rotvine Defiler. Noticed that was one of the only ones you did not address. Anything you can say about it?

 

[Rechan]

That's how Bad Things^tm like lycanthropy and vampirism should be treated.

Unless you don't believe they should be Bad Things to begin with.

 

[Shroomy]

I too am awaiting my copy from Amazon, but I had a chance to look over this book at B&N also. Looks really good and there are tons of monsters; I can't wait until I get the chance to read it in-depth (probably on Thursday). I was stoked to see an old favorite of mine, the two-headed death dog (hmmm, a monster from the 1e FF, could the hand of Mearls be making its presence knownz?). Sadly, no ju-ju zombies, but there were a couple of new zombie types that could serve the same purpose.

 

[Crothian]

Unless you don't believe they should be Bad Things to begin with.

But D&D does and that's what is important. D&D from what I've seen always has so it is nice to see that hasn't changed.

 

[Rechan]

I only had ten minutes while I flipped through it in Books-A-Million.

The Rotvine Defiler is a lvl 26 Solo something. A giant plant undead thing.

I really want to sit down with the Spirit-Eater Vampire (not sure) and the Vampire Muse (Elite 10 Controller). The Corpse Eater Vampire, however, looks real dull. Also, the Oni Spirit Taker looks cool (one of the Oni are not undead).

The Spirit Ooze is neat. If it hits with a basic attack, it gains phasing until the end of its next turn. While it has phasing, it gains a minor action shift, and gains a bonus to AC (and I believe Ref). It splits in half (like an Ochre Jelly), and does 2d6 with Combat Advantage.

Reapers are agents of Vecna.

Lots of mummies.

 

[Rechan]

But D&D does and that's what is important. D&D from what I've seen always has so it is nice to see that hasn't changed.

Except for all those rules that allow one to play those bad things without problems.

Hell, there are no Vampire/Lycanthropy traits in 4e, for that matter.

 

[Haffrung Helleyes]

I'm not sure I buy the argument that D&D has always treated vampirism and lycanthropy as bad things. I can think of quite a few CG WereBear PCs and NPCs , for example.

Also, Steven Brust's Jhereg series was based on a long running D&D campaign. Wasn't one of Vlad Taltos's best friends a lich?

Ken

 

[Wolfwood2]

Unless you don't believe they should be Bad Things to begin with.

It's not some kind of moral judgment. Just, they made the decision not to present this stuff with level adjustments and ECLs and stuff like that. It's not intended to be "balanced". That was one of the core decisions of 4E D&D, not to try to balance monster abilities for PC use.

If you're comfortable, just don't use the "bad stuff" sidebar and let the PCs benefit from the neat abilities without a bunch of downsides.