Worst 4th Ed Class

[bganon]

The Wizard class has a lot of problems
Tell me the fundamental difference between a staff wizard and a wand wizard. Yeah, almost nothing. No bonus feats, no powers tied into them, no class changing functionality.

IME it's the magic powers that you can get on different implements that make them feel completely different. And sure, a "wand wizard" can use a staff, but likely their best implement is a wand. Wands give access to new powers without even needing to multiclass. Staves tend to make your AoE spells more powerful. Orbs mostly seem to be about inflicting nasty status ailments. They feel a lot more different from each other than, say, the kinds of enhancements you can get on a hammer vs a sword.

I don't think spellbooks are that hard to figure out and there have already been official FAQ answers on some of your questions, so you should check that out.

Also, Blinding Barrage and Sleep are just very different powers, I don't think it's easy to compare them. Close blast 3 is rather different from Area burst 2 in 20. Unconscious is a much, MUCH nastier status to inflict than blinded, so it's reasonable that it happens less often. But personally I think that while Sleep is great if you build an Orbizard around it, the spell is otherwise a bit average and only situationally useful if you don't, especially at low levels. A level 1 non-orb wizard will probably get a lot more mileage out of Flaming Sphere.

 

[Shroomy]

I voted "None, some classes stand out while none are really sub par," because I think that's true, but the really important thing from my perspective is that I want to actually play all of these classes. That's something new for me.

 

[yesnomu]

Did it? I wondered what was up, but there wasn't any way to make the math work. With a miscalculation, how can we tell if it was miscalculated up or down?

Well, if they use Con, it'd only be a point down (compared to 2 or 3), and the person who prepared the char sheets has already mentioned it, I believe.

Also, I don't understand people who don't enjoy the Wizard. Color Spray? Stinking Cloud? Mofoin' Flaming Sphere? My Wizard is a ton of fun to play. Even just tossing a Fire Burst out there and burning half the room down is entertaining.

EDIT2: Although, my party and I are definitely looking forward to level 11 and the War Wizardry feat (-5 to-hit and half damage to allies).

 

[Asmor]

I forgot the artificer, ARGH.

A shame, that's the only one I don't like. I just can't dig it.

I'm not a fan of the bard, either, but that's more because I hate bards conceptually.

 

[evilbob]

Interesting points on wizards... While I agree with some of the above posts, including Plane Sailing and his summary of things that aren't particularly keen on wizards, I have to say that overall my impression of the class is AWESOME.

For the record, I have a level 6 wizard I have played from level 1. I do not have a starting 20 in Int (just 18 after racial) and my wisdom started at 14. I do not play an orb/sleep wizard and have cast the sleep spell once - after which I promptly swapped it out for my other daily and haven't cast it since, since it is horrible (at least at low levels). The thing is, I think everyone gets all caught up on the whole orb/sleep thing and it's really just a red herring. Wizards can be incredibly powerful, but not if you focus on orbs and sleep. (Well, ok, they CAN be powerful if you focus on orbs and sleep - but not for levels 1-10.)

In fact, wizards are almost too powerful, frankly, because they control the most awesome powers in the game: ones that do sustainable, move-able, area-of-effect auto-damage. Flaming Sphere and Stinking Cloud can do more damage than a striker, easily. But where they really shine is in a minion-heavy encounter: here, you will see how wizards can control the field.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: if you don't like wizards, you're choosing the wrong dailies. The worst thing about the class is the insane difference between power levels of various same-level daily powers: some are the most powerful dailies in the game, and some are about as good as lower-level encounter powers.

 

[JiffyPopTart]

Aint that the truth. I've been playing a Paladin in our group since just after 4E came out. We've been doubling our XP, so we advence quicker and we're up to 8th level now. The amount of pounding that my guy takes has become kind of a running joke in our campaign. I get pummeled every combat, while our Cleric and Wizard never get touched. I think I'm performing a valuable service to our party, but it isn't partulcarly fun to get pounded and then take a swipe with your sword (in my case a +2 Vicious Flail).

Durn Tootin!

I like my CHARACTER (human paladin) but having the main role each and every fight of getting hammered on to the point of unconsciousness without dishing much back in return kinda gets old. I am hoping that things will improve in the next tier so I can do something other than act as meatshield.

DS

 

[ferratus]

I'm not understanding the lack of a difference between staff, orb and wand wizards. I'm playing a staff wizard with a 16 con, and once per encounter I'm a literal tank. With a little bit of aegis of shielding and sacrificing a minor action to mage hand, I can get my AC up to 26 (and I haven't taken any armor proficiencies yet). I took 8 straight attacks in "the gauntlet" in the Bodrin's Watch scales of War adventure.

That's quite a bit different from the Orb wizard who specializes in sleep, or the wand wizard who concentrates on pretending he is a striker.

 

[TarionzCousin]

That's the way I'm playing my paladin and I'm having fun.

Masochists can have a good time almost everywhere.

I'm not a fan of the bard, either, but that's more because I hate bards conceptually.

Singing and dancing around a dungeon? What's not to like?

 

[Ahglock]

I'm curious to know if all the people who voted for wizards think they are too weak or too powerful. While I agree that having an at-will power that is strictly weaker than an invoker at-will power makes me sad (and begs for a house rule), if you think wizards are too weak I suspect you're choosing the wrong dailies. If anything, the vast power gap between similar-level daily powers is the worst thing about the wizard. (Web vs. Stinking Cloud? Not even in the same ballpark.)

For me its because they are weak.
Some have gone over issues with he class so I wont reiterate those, but I think the largest problem with them is they more than any other class require certain encounter conditions to look good.

I have to design my encounters so there blow up your friends AoE spells some how come into play enough that it is at least as good as a ranger just shooting two targets. I have to have the enemies start at a decent distance, form into clumps, go through choke points just so they are on par with the rest.

There decent encounters are almost the opposite of what makes every other class look good. So assuming a 5 man team lets say I design 1 in 5 encounters toward the wiards abilites. Great so 4 in 5 encounters he is below average and one in 5 encounters he is a bit above average. I do not consider that balanced. I especially don't like it since to make the wizard look decent I have to make the enemies fight like they got hit by the stuipid stick.

Sure you can design a sick orb wizard, but abusing a broken rule does not make a balanced class. It just means there is a broken rule.

 

[Ahglock]

I'm not understanding the lack of a difference between staff, orb and wand wizards. I'm playing a staff wizard with a 16 con, and once per encounter I'm a literal tank. With a little bit of aegis of shielding and sacrificing a minor action to mage hand, I can get my AC up to 26 (and I haven't taken any armor proficiencies yet). I took 8 straight attacks in "the gauntlet" in the Bodrin's Watch scales of War adventure.

That's quite a bit different from the Orb wizard who specializes in sleep, or the wand wizard who concentrates on pretending he is a striker.

I think its the once per encounter aspect of there abilities. Most other classes there class defining abilities are just on or usable every round, not once per encounter. So in a typical for my games 8 round fight, for most of a fight a wand wizard looks the same as a staff wizard, but hey once per encounter he looks different. So yeah, total sameness IMO.