Worst 4th Ed Class

[evilbob]

I'm still really amazed by all the anti-wizard replies. I will totally agree with the "orb vs. wand vs. staff = can't tell a difference" argument; that is completely valid, and more differentiation would have helped a lot. But 1 in 5 battles is all you can do to make a wizard shine? I've played a wizard to level 6 with a GM who does not dumb any monsters down, and I know I have felt useless in pretty much none of the battles we've done so far. Sure, against solos I can't do as much, but in any other situation the wizard can shine. (In fact, I feel like my wizard pretty much steals focus a bit too much, if anything.)

Maybe the wizard is just like the warlord in that many people just don't "get" how they play? I strongly suspect that having a deep love for tactical strategy games helps me play a wizard well - is this a requirement? Or maybe there are just a lot of bad powers that the wizard has that I have avoided: magic missile (single target damage = someone else's job), sleep (come back to it at level 11), acid arrow (see MM, also why hurt your friends?), others?

 

[greatamericanfolkher]

a)Huge whiff factor.
b)Dailies are unimpressive.
c)Generally hard to use AE spells in a typical melee environment and not frag half your team.
d)Mostly useful only if you're facing minions, due to poor damage output. (Low damage seems to be "balanced" with area effects, which is useful only if you face a lot of low hit points opponents spread over a large region.)

When we've had minion-heavy fights, the wizard has been very useful; in fights without minions, he's mostly reduced to doing Magic MISSile, if you get my drift...

I’ve seen the same thing in the 4e games that I’ve played, except that my “old stand by” has been cloud of daggers because MM just didn't cut it anymore.

 

[Wormwood]

I'm still really amazed by all the anti-wizard replies.

As a DM, so am I.

The party wizard is *consistently* the guy I find myself dreading during important battles. Flaming Sphere, Stinking Cloud---these things really force me to alter my plans and almost always swing combats in the party's favor.

 

[yesnomu]

As a DM, so am I.

The party wizard is *consistently* the guy I find myself dreading during important battles. Flaming Sphere, Stinking Cloud---these things really force me to alter my plans and almost always swing combats in the party's favor.

Yeah, the right Wizard dailies and encounters seem to make all the difference. I think what AP needs the most, quite apart from better at-wills, is a greater selection of spells like those. More walls and zones, definitely.

 

[Plane Sailing]

As a DM, so am I.

The party wizard is *consistently* the guy I find myself dreading during important battles. Flaming Sphere, Stinking Cloud---these things really force me to alter my plans and almost always swing combats in the party's favor.

That would be because the wizard has chosen the two worthwhile dailies!

Honestly, the dailies which can be sustained for a combat and which do automatic damage are excellent. The problem is that the majority of them cannot be sustained and do paltry damage.

If all of the wizard dailies were as good as flaming sphere and stinking cloud it would remove one of the big 'underpowered' complaints about them.

Cheers

 

[gtoasnt3]

Interesting results so far. Our group feels that Warlords and Wizards are really good additions to the party. I voted for swordmage because of the PC's feeling of that class. The swordmage was the first and second PC to die in our 4ed campaign. When the first died, that PC rolled up another, and had the same results. My bet is that the player didn't understand how to run the guy, but either way, nobody will play the class again.

 

[Nahat Anoj]

I actually like all the classes and think they are all at least pretty good, so for me this is a "Which class do you like least" poll. I chose cleric, paladin, ranger, and warlock because unlike every other class seen so far, these four don't have one primary stat for their powers. IMO they feel like two classes mushed into one (cleric and ranger) or just don't have a clean breakdown of stats (paladin and warlock).

If these classes were ever redesigned to have one primary stat, I'd have to say the wizard is the "worst" class, because I think their at-wills need some TLC. But the wizard's problems aren't as fundamental as the four classes I mentioned earlier.

 

[evilbob]

If all of the wizard dailies were as good as flaming sphere and stinking cloud it would remove one of the big 'underpowered' complaints about them.

Completely agree. Although, I will say Freezing Cloud is not bad for a level 1 daily since it hits such a huge area - but Flaming Sphere still seems better, especially for more general use.

I chose cleric, paladin, ranger, and warlock because unlike every other class seen so far, these four don't have one primary stat for their powers.

Also agreed. I should have voted like that as well.

 

[Felon]

Warlock for the win!

Err, I mean, for the lose....

1) A striker with bottom-rung damage output.
2) Not only stuck attacking at range, but at short range (10 squares or less), with little recourse for when monsters lock you in place.
3) Split between Con and Charisma, severely narrowing down the options once you choose one or the other.
4) Stocked with loads of poison and fear attacks, both of which just happen to be among the scant few things that monsters are commonly immune to. And there's a huge fire and necrotic fixation, which are probably the most common resists in the game. Bear that in mind in comparison with [w] damage, which is rarely resisted anymore. I think the only reason this isn't a bigger problem is because most DM's don't take stock of the keywords a player's attacks have.
5) Required to take Eldritch Blast as an at-will. Man, this is such a shaft, and it really flies right under most folks' radar exactly how bad a piece o' crap it is. It does a d10 damage, and absolutely nothing else. Now, think about that. Think of all those martial characters with a basic attack that does a d10 or a d12 or more, and milking properties like brutal or high crit. The warlock's gotta use up an at-will to get what a ranger gets out of his basic attack with less range, and in the case of a greatbow from AV, less damage. It is a big, fat raw deal.

I"m gonna be generous and leave out PHB-specific shafts, like the paragon-path railroad and the dearth of feats.

 

[Felon]

I chose cleric, paladin, ranger, and warlock because unlike every other class seen so far, these four don't have one primary stat for their powers.

Agree on everything but the ranger, who only needs to multi-stat if he wants both ranged and melee capability, and that's a luxury most classes aren't even offered.