Worst 4th Ed Class

[Lizard]

And I still think it's all dependent on whether or not you took Flaming Sphere as your level 1 daily (and Stinking Cloud as your level 5, if you made it that far).

Ours started with Sleep and switched to Acid Arrow. Sleep was useless; Acid Arrow rarely hits, and, if it does, it sprays any allies in the area. It's very rare for there to be two or more targets and no allies adjacent to them. The most useful spell thus far is flaming burst, because it only targets enemies -- but that requires the wizard get his low AC butt "all up in their grill".

For those who dislike wizards: do your wizard experiences typically involve people blowing all their big shots in the first round, or do they hold back most of the time?

Encounters tend to be used early, but ALL of us hold on to our dailies as long as possible. The fear that there's something nastier just around the next bend is pretty strong in our campaign. Our DM likes to play with us, of course. We had one VERY nasty fight which we held back as much as we could on, due to the knowledge that the real big bad was, indeed, just ahead; as a consequence, we staggered out of that fight in single digit hit points and many of us with no surges left. We took 5, then went, with great fear, to the "final" fight... and then steamrollered through it, burning through all of our dailies and massacring the enemies who were much weaker than what we'd just fought.

 

[Cadfan]

Encounters tend to be used early, but ALL of us hold on to our dailies as long as possible. The fear that there's something nastier just around the next bend is pretty strong in our campaign.

We used to do that. But we've started realizing that doing this is a really, really bad idea. Now we make an effort to use one per encounter per player. We've reached the level where we have 3 or more per character (counting combat relevant utility dailies), a lot of our dailies have bonuses that don't stack well (for example, our wizard has a handful of sustainable powers but only 3 actions per turn), and we were finishing the typical day with way too many of them unused.

 

[Jack99]

All I can say is that as of 4th (nearly 5th) level in our game (Paladin, Artificer, Ranger, Rogue, Wizard), the Wizard is consistently the least useful EXCEPT if there's minions -- and then, he's useful just until the minions go. His "battlefield control" spells are rarely a meaningful hindrance, and his direct damage is low and made worse by constantly missing. He's actually more useful OUT of combat due to a lot of knowledge skills and a high Charisma coupled with social skills -- he's our party spokesman and negotiator.

I will say this much: While we didn't think he was weak at lower levels, it has definitely helped as he gained more levels. I can't remember when he really became a top3 class in our games, but right now, he rocks (the party is level 11 now, started at 1).

The other campaign is level 15, but we started at level 12 or 13. The wizard holds his own without issues there as well, and we meet like no minions.

Not arguing, just presenting data.

 

[RefinedBean]

Now we make an effort to use one per encounter per player.

Same here, and I gotta say, it's helped a lot. Dailies, especially from controllers, can change the flow of an ENTIRE combat, making things much easier on everyone. Also helps, in the long run, to save resources (healing surges and item power uses) for later.

Plus, honestly, dailies are just cool, and having something cool happen each combat is a definite bonus.

That being said, there's nothing quite like the feel of failure when you miss with a Daily on a minion. Oh man.

 

[Mistwell]

I wonder if people who find the wizard to be less effective are playing in groups where the non-controllers are not coordinating tactics well with the wizard.

For example, the wizard player typically knows they should not block a clear path to move to the foes for the defenders. But, do the defenders and melee strikers in these games know to not stagger themselves such that someone would get caught in an area attack?

In our games, all the players know that the defenders form a straight front line, the melee strikers move in but move back out again right away (or are ranged strikers), the leaders stay behind the front line to heal, and the controllers nuke area attacks in a square in front of the defender's front line. But that doesn't work if melee strikers or defenders are leaving themselves outside the front line, in the line of fire of an area attack that they should be expecting.

In other words, are melee strikers and defenders not standing clear of the expected grenade, and instead employing tactics that makes tossing a grenade either less effective or not effective at all?

 

[evilbob]

Mistwell: Even where I'm the level 6 wizard and having a great time, our party does absolutely nothing to help my tactics. Each person often tends to do what favors themselves at the time - even the warlord - and yet I still have no problem setting up AOEs and using powers and never hitting allies. I think over 6 levels I've attacked an ally twice (missed once, hit once).

Lizard: Yeah, sleep is HORRIBLE at low levels and acid arrow isn't much better. Suggest your wizard switch to flaming sphere and watch them be amazed at how much difference there is in power levels between same-level dailies. (Seriously: did no one play test these things?)

Cadfan: I am right there with you. I like to start combat with encounter power + action point + daily + move action to move daily. If I can't do at least that much on turn one, I feel like I'm wasting actions. But really, blowing your most powerful abilities early is a HUGE help, because dropping monsters faster means you don't take as many hits (and fights don't last as long, yay!). Getting a daily out there early can also mean more time to move that daily around and do more damage (I can seriously rival our striker in total damage with Stinking Cloud). It's always better to use all your encounter powers at the very first opportunity to use them effectively; holding onto anything just means you're causing the party to get hurt worse and/or allowing the enemy to use more powers to gain an advantage over you. Think about it: why is a surprise round so powerful? Why is improved initiative so good? Because going first is a huge advantage! Use it!

 

[Lizard]

Cadfan: I am right there with you. I like to start combat with encounter power + action point + daily + move action to move daily. If I can't do at least that much on turn one, I feel like I'm wasting actions. But really, blowing your most powerful abilities early is a HUGE help, because dropping monsters faster means you don't take as many hits (and fights don't last as long, yay!). Getting a daily out there early can also mean more time to move that daily around and do more damage (I can seriously rival our striker in total damage with Stinking Cloud). It's always better to use all your encounter powers at the very first opportunity to use them effectively; holding onto anything just means you're causing the party to get hurt worse and/or allowing the enemy to use more powers to gain an advantage over you. Think about it: why is a surprise round so powerful? Why is improved initiative so good? Because going first is a huge advantage! Use it!

Hmm. I tend to horde even Encounter powers until mid-fight, because I feel I am "Wasting" them if I use them early and it turns out the guy I targeted was a minion/not very tough/whatever. I like to "size up" the enemy before dipping into expendable resources. Maybe this is poor tactics; I don't know. (Part of it might be that with a Battlecrazed sword, I'm a lot deadlier when I'm bloodied; saving my encounter powers for when I'm doing +1d6/attack makes a lot of sense...) (DAMN, I love that sword... I just need a second one to make Twin Strike absolutely obscene...2d10+2+2d6(+1d6 for quarry)...drooool.... but I digress.)

 

[Wik]

Hunh. Y'know, I could be wrong, but I kind of thought it said in the DMG for the DM to give away game relevant information - such as, say, "these are minions".

In every encounter I run, I put a tag on minion characters. I guess it makes things a bit easier for our characters... not that we have a wizard. (Our Warlord has multied into Wizard, but still only has one wizard power).

 

[Stalker0]

Having seen a wizard player in my game at 8th level I will say that wizard dailies make all the difference.

Flaming Sphere turns a wizard into a striker, he pumps out crazy damage over the course of the fight. Bigby's Icy Hand turns him into strikery super controller, big damage, immobilize, and he will drag guys around with the hand using the grab rules.

That said, I still think it was one of the classes most stripped of its glory. I was all for balancing, but they really did take the heart out of the class with its nothing but blasting things theme.

 

[Branduil]

I don't really get the hate for the Wizard. Even with its flaws, I think it's a great class to play, tactically.

I voted for the Warlock. Poor damage for a striker and weird stat dependencies make me say ugh.