Another Cease and Desist Letter: 4E Powercards

[jdrakeh]

FWIW, it's possible that WotC is clamping down on fan publishing altogether as an effort to reign in control of their IP. Earier today, I received word from WotC corporate that I cannot dedicate an issue of my 2-page fanzine to their Lords of Creation property (luckily I checked before assuming that it was okay).

I'm somewhat disappointed, as they haven't done anything with LoC since acquiring it (and prior to the acquisition, nobody had done anything with it for well over a decade), though I suppose that the "Let's share!" era of gaming had to come to an end some day. It was fun while it lasted and I guess we can at least be thankful we got as much as we did.*

*Prior to the advent of the OGL and PDF publishing, the common practice amongst publishers was to sit on their old property forever, never allowing it to again see the light of day.

 

[El Mahdi]

FWIW, it's possible that WotC is clamping down on fan publishing altogether as an effort to reign in control of their IP. Earier today, I received word from WotC corporate that I cannot dedicate an issue of my 2-page fanzine to their Lords of Creation property (luckily I checked before assuming that it was okay). ...

Just curious, what was the basic outline of what you were going to print in your fanzine? What specifically were they reticent about?

I read your first issue and I really can't imagine anything you could put in a two page fanzine (other than straight copyrighted material) that would bother anyone.

(By the way, cool fanzine. Nice premise. I'll have to keep checking back to see what games you pull out of obscurity.)

 

[jdrakeh]

Just curious, what was the basic outline of what you were going to print in your fanzine?

We didn't get to specifics.

What specifically were they reticent about?

Use of the trademark, apparently.

(By the way, cool fanzine. Nice premise. I'll have to keep checking back to see what games you pull out of obscurity.)

Thanks! That said, issues will be pretty irregular in my keeping with the 'doing it for fun' theme.

 

[El Mahdi]

I have to admit, I find this a little disturbing and foreboding. I completely understand the actions they took with Ema's and with the powercards site. But I find this troubling.

 

[Dire Bare]

FWIW, it's possible that WotC is clamping down on fan publishing altogether as an effort to reign in control of their IP. Earier today, I received word from WotC corporate that I cannot dedicate an issue of my 2-page fanzine to their Lords of Creation property (luckily I checked before assuming that it was okay).

I'm somewhat disappointed, as they haven't done anything with LoC since acquiring it (and prior to the acquisition, nobody had done anything with it for well over a decade), though I suppose that the "Let's share!" era of gaming had to come to an end some day. It was fun while it lasted and I guess we can at least be thankful we got as much as we did.*

*Prior to the advent of the OGL and PDF publishing, the common practice amongst publishers was to sit on their old property forever, never allowing it to again see the light of day.

I sincerely doubt that WotC is "clamping down" on fan publishing at all, although the word "publishing" might be somewhat problematic. When does something cross the line between fan "publishing" and a professional product? Quality? Free or at cost? Number of "fans" involved?

Was your article going to simply be about "Lords of Creation"? Like a review or informational article? If so, you wouldn't need any sort of permission.

Were you planning on providing game information? Like new monsters, rules, etc? I've never heard of Lords of Creation, but I doubt it is an open property at all like the last two editions of D&D. I would guess that it's not so much that WotC has any "problem" with your desire to publish something for the game, but feels that there would need to be a license involved like the OGL or GSL, and it simply isn't worth their time to work it out. It's much easier to just say, "No."

Chances are, if you had a "Lords of Creation" fansite that offered new elements for the game, WotC probably wouldn't have even noticed. And if it was brought to their attention, they probably wouldn't have bothered to do anything about it (although, they of course could and might). But since you asked, the easiest answer for them was simply, "No, you can't do that."

Hopefully, once WotC finally posts their fansite policy it will cover fansites of games they own the rights to but no longer actively publish.

 

[jdrakeh]

Was your article going to simply be about "Lords of Creation"? Like a review or informational article? If so, you wouldn't need any sort of permission.

A short article, plus a short scenario. See the link in my .sig for Outre Realms, which will take you to the discussion group (it contains a link to Issue 001).

I would guess that it's not so much that WotC has any "problem" with your desire to publish something for the game, but feels that there would need to be a license involved like the OGL or GSL, and it simply isn't worth their time to work it out. It's much easier to just say, "No."

Quite possibly.

Hopefully, once WotC finally posts their fansite policy it will cover fansites of games they own the rights to but no longer actively publish.

Yeah, I'm waiting for that but, in the meantime, I felt that the responsible thing to do was ask for permission rather than just do it, cross my fingers, and hope they didn't send me a cease and desist order.

 

[Dire Bare]

Yeah, I'm waiting for that but, in the meantime, I felt that the responsible thing to do was ask for permission rather than just do it, cross my fingers, and hope they didn't send me a cease and desist order.

Oh, I think you did the right thing. Like I said, if you had gone ahead and done it without asking, chances are WotC wouldn't have noticed or come after you. But, of course, they just might have. Complying with a C&D isn't hard or onerous, but it does make you feel like you wasted your time! Better to be safe than sorry.

I just don't think it's indicative of a change in their policy towards fansites.

 

[Scott_Rouse]

FWIW, it's possible that WotC is clamping down on fan publishing altogether as an effort to reign in control of their IP. Earier today, I received word from WotC corporate that I cannot dedicate an issue of my 2-page fanzine to their Lords of Creation property (luckily I checked before assuming that it was okay).

I'm somewhat disappointed, as they haven't done anything with LoC since acquiring it (and prior to the acquisition, nobody had done anything with it for well over a decade), though I suppose that the "Let's share!" era of gaming had to come to an end some day. It was fun while it lasted and I guess we can at least be thankful we got as much as we did.*

*Prior to the advent of the OGL and PDF publishing, the common practice amongst publishers was to sit on their old property forever, never allowing it to again see the light of day.

No this has nothing to do with fanzines.

LOC was published by Avalon Hill. Back in those days, rights to games that lay fallow for a number of years often reverted back to the author/designer. This was before work-for-hire contracts. I am not saying this is the case here but it has happened with games like Cosmic Encouter and Titan

There are any number of reasons why your request was denied (time of our legal staff, potential issues with the rights, etc) but it has nothing to do with a fanzine policy and it is pretty uncool of you to suggest such a thing

 

[Mark]

I am not saying this is the case here (. . .)


(. . .) but it has nothing to do with a fanzine policy and it is pretty uncool of you to suggest such a thing

Seems like you could find out what the actual problem is before harshing on him about his perceptions. He's done his part by contacting WotC legal, he got an inadequate response, and he is now being publicly told that you do not know what it is but that it isn't what he suspects it is. Without you getting an answer from legal it seems just as likely to an outsider that maybe legal might actually believe there is a policy in place to just deny fanzines or publishers any request unless it comes through some other channels or is handled under the GSL. Seriously, dude. You could have picked up a phone to legal, find out who made the denial, and then posted by clearing up the problem instead of just slapping down the poor guy who is only doing what many, many fans are likely to do over the coming years and months post-OGL. That's not the way people have come to believe that you deal with fans, Scott. From one member of the community to another, don't let us down, please.

 

[Ourph]

There are any number of reasons why your request was denied (time of our legal staff, potential issues with the rights, etc) but it has nothing to do with a fanzine policy and it is pretty uncool of you to suggest such a thing

I have to agree with Mark, you're coming off pretty aggressive toward a post that specifically used non-commital language. Plus, it seems to me that any fanzine that actually references someone else's IP (as fanzines generally tend to do) might have "potential" issues with the rights and might require time from the legal department to accept or deny. That comes across as a de facto policy, whether you intend it to be or not.