How do you distribute treasure?

[Ydars]

I very much get the impression that for many groups, this is basically what happens. The players don't even specifically search for the treasure. As soon as the foe is defeated, the DM provides them with an exact list of the treasure they find. I've even got into arguments at Enworld with DMs or players that insist that treasure should never be hidden, because if it is hidden, then it raises the risk that the players might not find it.

I only wish this was just "in game" but the truth is that the 1st world is building people up to a false sense of entitlement in everything.

It is not just the young; I see it everywhere, including in myself, because we are all exposed to the same influences.

When I was a very young man, the world seemed to be saying to me "Nothing comes easily and you have to EARN everything!"

Now the "vibe" seems to be "What will you buy with money you don't have or haven't earned; i.e. with credit?" and "Have this thing that you want and have it NOW, even though you have neither earned nor worked for it; consequences can wait!".

One of the downfalls of our modern society is the corrosive nature of advertising on our attitudes. We are encouraged to spend and buy and the subtle but pervasive attitude is always "You deserve this right now!" It is great for the economy but terrible for our characters (pun intended).

 

[billd91]

Someone mentioned wish lists and a PC being 'due' an item. I hope that's not what it sounds like. If one of my players wants the Ring of Gaxx I should put the Ring of Gaxx somewhere in my Dungeon? I don't get that. How does the player know what magical items or artifacts exist in your campaign world?

I also distribute treasure based on what would be most likely based on the setting the characters are in and the creatures they are looting. But I also believe that characters can be 'due' some treasure consideration.

If the PCs have been getting lots of stuff that favors a particular type of character (like a lot of magical heavy armor or weaponry) but little for the others, I'll work on making sure there are some appropriate things for them to take and use. I'll add a wizard to the bandit camp with a little bit of wizard-appropriate treasure. I'll put a bodyguard in the wizard's tower with fighter-appropriate treasure. And so on.

All PCs deserve some DM consideration and may, at times, need a little extra attention when the local circumstances are not naturally in their favor.

 

[Fenes]

I only wish this was just "in game" but the truth is that the 1st world is building people up to a false sense of entitlement in everything.

One of the downfalls of our modern society is the corrosive nature of advertising on our attitudes. We are encouraged to spend and buy and the subtle but pervasive attitude is always "You deserve this right now!" It is great for the economy but terrible for our characters (pun intended).

I am perfectly capable to understand that a game is not real life. And I work enough, I don't need to work in a game to "earn" something.

 

[Jack7]

One of the downfalls of our modern society is the corrosive nature of advertising on our attitudes. We are encouraged to spend and buy and the subtle but pervasive attitude is always "You deserve this right now!" It is great for the economy but terrible for our characters (pun intended).

I'm entirely with you Ydars on this one. Both in-game and out.
And a punny made is a punny earned.

 

[FireLance]

And a punny made is a punny earned.

You realize that makes you in for a pound, right?

 

[The Green Adam]

I also distribute treasure based on what would be most likely based on the setting the characters are in and the creatures they are looting. But I also believe that characters can be 'due' some treasure consideration.

If the PCs have been getting lots of stuff that favors a particular type of character (like a lot of magical heavy armor or weaponry) but little for the others, I'll work on making sure there are some appropriate things for them to take and use.

All PCs deserve some DM consideration and may, at times, need a little extra attention when the local circumstances are not naturally in their favor.

I suppose I agree in principal but I don't know that I would phrase it quite that way. Why would the PCs get "lots of stuff that favors a particular type of character"? If you're randomly inserting treasure its possible but if you're designing the rewards its not. Perhaps a better way to put it is this...

Adventure: Assault of the Wizard's Tower!

Objective? Assault a Wizard's Tower. OK, so on the lower levels there are numerous orc guards, nothing special no major treasure. A few gps, a stolen quality dagger perhaps. Next level, Sgt/Lt Orcs, a masterwork sword, a potion of healing whathaveyou. A secret room leads to a somewhat more serious monster guarding low level magical treasure including an unique though not overly powerful weapon. Next level is one of the wizard's workshops, guarded by the wizard's apprentice and a hench beast/monster. PC Wizard picks up some cool stuff here - components, a scroll perhaps, a wand (not too powerful or maybe still in the making and powerful but unreliable or prone to side effects). On up to the top level, battle the evil Wizard and his two suped up orc/hobgoblin bodyguards. In addition to clues to a bigger plot and foiling some plans, PCs find stolen item from nearby Kingdom (return that), a magic axe from one bodyguard and arrows from the other (usually the PC using the axe is not the PC using arrows alot, or something similar). Cleric finds a mysterious holy item that seems out of place here. Perhaps its the catalyst for a new adventure. Evil wizard had one more magic item that the PC wizard takes.

OK, at the end, the PC Wizard seems to have gained a bit more (though really not a lot more) then the others because they attacked an Evil Wizard's home. Next adventure, the clues lead to a tomb raiding mission requiring the Rogue's skills and resulting in a few Rogue focused items (the stuff left behind by all the rogues who failed before her). Fighter types get more fighter items but the challenges are tougher.

Etc, etc.

AD

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

Doesn't anyone play using a more natural, organic method? You know, you fight evil dudes protecting an ancient evil burial mound and then there's treasure in the mound. Its not arbitrary or random, its based on what people would carry or where they would hide their secret stuff.

Yup. Sort of how I do it. I don't even really have a "system." I never liked the idea of random treasure, and one of my first tenants was always, "If you fought troglodites with war scythes, you're getting war scythes in the loot." As opposed to the randomly rolled holy longsword on a creature that's evil and similar nonsense.

After accounting for stuff actually used in the encounter, I secondly add appropriate things. Even if the warlock didn't use many wands or scrolls, when you fight one, expect to get a ton of those. A fighter-type? Lots of buff potions, and some magical gear. Draconics? Stuff to boost breath weapon, and so on.

Third, and most important, I try to just add things that seem cool. Not every little old dungeon (insignificant "quickies" I usually don't waste much time on treasure), but often enough. This includes oddities that look fun and no one would likely buy on their own, but might at half price. Like troll gut rope, marvelous pigments, or restorative ointment. For particularly important/large adventures, I will always put in at least one item blatantly and shamelessly ideal for each of the PCs (like boots of the battle charger for someone who charges a lot, a crystal echoblade for a bard, etc...) and possibly something on their "wish list." I don't collect any actual lists, but the players talk. I generally know what they would like in the near future. I was doing this before 4E suggested it, and it's one of the things I like about that edition.

For treasure dispersal, I always show the total retail wholesale value *chuckles* and amount each PC gets, assuming they sell everything. I then list the values of everything, in terms of what they're sold for, in gp, and let them "buy back" whatever they'd like to keep. This is for an online game, with each dungeon result and ensuing claims of items having its own thread, so it works fairly smoothly for the environment. I also decided to have a mandatory party fund, so I take out 5% of all the treasure and put it in that. Which they can then use to get stuff for the party, like cure light wounds wands.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

Adventure: Assault of the Wizard's Tower!

Objective? Assault a Wizard's Tower. OK, so on the lower levels there are numerous orc guards, nothing special no major treasure. A few gps, a stolen quality dagger perhaps. Next level, Sgt/Lt Orcs, a masterwork sword, a potion of healing whathaveyou. A secret room leads to a somewhat more serious monster guarding low level magical treasure including an unique though not overly powerful weapon. Next level is one of the wizard's workshops, guarded by the wizard's apprentice and a hench beast/monster. PC Wizard picks up some cool stuff here - components, a scroll perhaps, a wand (not too powerful or maybe still in the making and powerful but unreliable or prone to side effects). On up to the top level, battle the evil Wizard and his two suped up orc/hobgoblin bodyguards. In addition to clues to a bigger plot and foiling some plans, PCs find stolen item from nearby Kingdom (return that), a magic axe from one bodyguard and arrows from the other (usually the PC using the axe is not the PC using arrows alot, or something similar). Cleric finds a mysterious holy item that seems out of place here. Perhaps its the catalyst for a new adventure. Evil wizard had one more magic item that the PC wizard takes.

OK, at the end, the PC Wizard seems to have gained a bit more (though really not a lot more) then the others because they attacked an Evil Wizard's home. Next adventure, the clues lead to a tomb raiding mission requiring the Rogue's skills and resulting in a few Rogue focused items (the stuff left behind by all the rogues who failed before her). Fighter types get more fighter items but the challenges are tougher.

Etc, etc.

AD

Yeah, basically. If I'm running a wizard's tower dungeon, the players should expect that to significantly affect both the treasure they find (absolute gold mine for a party wizard or other arcanist) and the encounters they face. I actually ran a wizard's tower dungeon a while ago in a different game than my current one. I told the players beforehand, "You're entering a powerful wizard's tower, don't expect conventional enemies, and come prepared." I felt bad screwing over the melee fighters (LOTS of aerial and ranged foes, as well as ones with odd abilities), but they at least knew to pack some ranged weapons. And I made sure to include some ground-based melee encounters that made sense for the area, so they wouldn't feel pathetic the entire dungeon. And in others left open the option of climbing to ledges or debuffing flight magic to take the fight up close open for the party. Likewise, when treasure came around, no magic swords, sadly. A lot of the scrolls and potions had useful buffs for the fighter types, though, so they still got something besides just money.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

I very much get the impression that for many groups, this is basically what happens. The players don't even specifically search for the treasure. As soon as the foe is defeated, the DM provides them with an exact list of the treasure they find. I've even got into arguments at Enworld with DMs or players that insist that treasure should never be hidden, because if it is hidden, then it raises the risk that the players might not find it.

Yeah, my group never really bothered with searching for our treasure. For us, it's less entitelment, and more an issue of time/laziness. As a player, I donly get to play like 4-6 hours per week. I don't want to spend an hour each session scouring the dungeon for the treasure. In fact, I'd like all loot and buying issues to be done outside of game time, so there's more time to adventure. This is also why for my current online game, I like the current system. People just get what they need and document it in a forum, and game time is almost completely shopping-free.

As a DM, not only do I not want ot spend game time on the matter, I'm also lazy. If the players are finding the items piece by piece as they go alon, they'll rightfully expect to be able to use them later in the dungeon if they can identify the stuff properly (or possibly even if not ). Thus far, i have NEVER made out treasure found lists until after the dungeon. I just don't want to do it. I also might change things around mid-dungeon from the original plans if happens, which could affect what they get. So working on a mutual agreement of putting out a list post-dungeon, assuming they search for it as they explore, just works for us.

I have played in games where this wasn't the case, and was fine with it. It is fun to find an item and use it in that same lair, if the DM knows beforehand what's in the dungeon to find. And it can even be fun, as a Rogue or similar class, knowing you got "extra" goodies because you thought to check that wall which was actually a secret door.

I might handle things more strictly in the future, but not for now. And I do at least set limits by gp (and sometimes "oddness") of an item on whether it can be found at X. FWIW, I'm in my twenties, and 95% of the people I've ever gamed with have been 25 or younger. And the other 5% were all online, with me never even seeing said person face to face. I've seen some of the sense of entitlement you talk about (and have it myself), but not to such a horrible extent. I don't think any particular item should be "off limits" forever, if it's allowed in the campaign and is appropriate for the level of the character. If it's something rare, turn it into a quest, after the PC researches it. But I'm not into the whole adversarial, "You want this item? Well, now that you told me, you're not going to get it..." view.

 

[Lanefan]

As a DM, not only do I not want ot spend game time on the matter, I'm also lazy. If the players are finding the items piece by piece as they go alon, they'll rightfully expect to be able to use them later in the dungeon if they can identify the stuff properly (or possibly even if not ).

Magic item field-testing is one of the most fun parts of the game, particularly when done carelessly.

Thus far, i have NEVER made out treasure found lists until after the dungeon. I just don't want to do it. I also might change things around mid-dungeon from the original plans if happens, which could affect what they get. So working on a mutual agreement of putting out a list post-dungeon, assuming they search for it as they explore, just works for us.

Assuming, of course, the treasure they find has no bearing on the actual adventure they are in.

I sometimes do the opposite: design an adventure fully expecting them to use what they find (and knowing it'll be much harder for them if they don't); or if it's a McGuffin adventure, once they've found the McGuffin they're free to use it till they get back to town and have to give it up.

Lanefan