D&D 4E Confirming the 4e Math, Stage 1: Iconics

[Remathilis]

I would like to know why you have gone for DEX as well, a waste with heavy armour.. mostly. But I guess you have a reason.

I guess part of it was for heavy blade mastery, but you only need a 17 dex for that. A scimitar-fighter might want higher than that, but a 25 is too high for most fighters. 14 dex + two 1 bonuses (11 and 21) and one of the 4 level bump should be enough. Put the rest of that dex into either wisdom (Combat Challenge) or Con (hp/surges).

 

[Klaus]

Put in Con. As a dragonborn, he gets to add Con mod to surge value and to breath damage.

 

[Stalker0]

I chose dex because its the key stat for heavy blades, but thinking about the powers I've chosen yeah I could go with a lot lower dex. Fair enough, I'll add it to the list.

 

[KarinsDad]

.
A few notes: For equipment I went with 1 22nd level item, 1 21st, and 1 20th, with 125,000 gp (this is the standard money for 21st level).

One problem with the DMG guidelines for starting PCs at high level for magic items is that they get fewer magic items than if they adventured.

A group of 4 PCs that went up through the levels and just made level 21 would have (on average) 3 items of levels 4 through 21, 2 of level 22, and 2 of level 23, and 1 of level 24 (according to the parcel handouts for 4 PCs). You should probably give them each an item of levels 17 through 19 to make it more like what would happen if they actually adventured.

Standard PCs would be bristling with items, even if they are lower level ones.

 

[Victim]

One problem with the DMG guidelines for starting PCs at high level for magic items is that they get fewer magic items than if they adventured.

A group of 4 PCs that went up through the levels and just made level 21 would have (on average) 3 items of levels 4 through 21, 2 of level 22, and 2 of level 23, and 1 of level 24 (according to the parcel handouts for 4 PCs). You should probably give them each an item of levels 17 through 19 to make it more like what would happen if they actually adventured.

Standard PCs would be bristling with items, even if they are lower level ones.

At level 21, you can bristle with items by using the free gold to get them. A level 20 item's worth of gold buys a lot of mid level stuff.

 

[KarinsDad]

At level 21, you can bristle with items by using the free gold to get them. A level 20 item's worth of gold buys a lot of mid level stuff.

PCs would have a ton of money more than the 125,000 GP each that he gave them. They would have 140,000 GP from levels 18, 19, and 20 alone if one multiplies that money by 80% (which the DMG does not state to do, it states to just take out a level +2 magic item parcel for a 4 PC group). If following the DMG parcel rules, the PCs would have 175,000 GP each from those 3 levels and more from previous levels.

So, they have a LOT less magical items and a LOT less gold than if the PCs would have come up through the levels.

This skews the results. The DMG guidelines on insta-PC creation are flawed.

 

[CapnZapp]

This skews the results. The DMG guidelines on insta-PC creation are flawed.

Well, to be fair, that DMG rule wasn't written to support math analysis like here.

It's intended to get a new character up and running with a minimum of fuss, and in that I think it succeeds.

Put otherwise: I like how the game awards a character that has slogged all the way through the game from first level (or at least "the last few levels") with better gear.

Besides, in play this issue is minimal - any discrepancies should go away after a few levels.

So I agree our example characters could be given a few more items; I just don't agree the DMG guidelines are "flawed".

 

[Eldorian]

If you really want these guys to be iconic, you'd build them with something closer to the default array instead of buying an 18 or 17 for everyone.

My group has found the 16/16/12/12/10/8 to be very popular.

My understanding is that they are supposed to be "everyman" heroes, instead of personalized heroes of certain players.

 

[Klaus]

I chose dex because its the key stat for heavy blades, but thinking about the powers I've chosen yeah I could go with a lot lower dex. Fair enough, I'll add it to the list.

Switch the heavy blade for an axe and you get the most out of that high Con.

 

[Jhaelen]

Good luck with this!

I've tried something similar over the easter weekend but took a slightly different approach:
- I restricted myself to the PHB1 and using the default ability array.
- I created one character from every class
- I wanted to have a party of five, so I doubled the striker role
- I created the characters on level 4, 14, and 24
- I picked items assuming a party had actually reached these levels by adventuring, resulting in a larger number of items than by using the DMG rules for higher level characters
- For any calculations, I used the averages of characters with identical roles.

I'm mostly okay with your reasons for doing things differently, but I'm a bit dubious about using level 21. It's the first level in the epic tier. Will this allow to come to meaningful conclusions about the epic tier? I don't think so. It's also too high to represent the paragon tier. Why choose such a threshold level?

Since your reputation on these boards is quite good, maybe you'll be able to reach a couple of the regulars who've already formed an opinion on 'the math', but I doubt it.

I definitely don't want to discourage you, though. Bring it on!