Were the characters created at first level and advance to ninth, or were they recent creations?
As a player, I'd hate to lose a character that I developed over a year.
My First 4e TPK!
- Thread starter chaotix42
- Start date
Were the characters created at first level and advance to ninth, or were they recent creations?
As a player, I'd hate to lose a character that I developed over a year.
Our group had seven players plus a DM, who also ran an NPC. We had temporarily taken over an extra-dimensional fortress, but three of the characters were killed. The DM and his brother were moving, so the new DM ruled that the three characters could not be raised because the magical nature of there they died (they were his character, plus those of the two leaving players). After our victory the five survivors just hit Paragon tier. The next adventure a team of drow took the fortress from us, and managed to raise the three bodies we left behind in a hurry. Those three (evil NPCs) and three other drow are now hunting our group as we would usually be hunting monsters.
At some point you may want to consider returning the group you killed as changed NPCs... as agents of the devils that killed them.
Jack99
Adventurer
I am familiar with the Sword-and-Board fighter, but what is Storm-and-Board?
mach1.9pants
Hero
They are the same, the Storm and Board just produces more wind....
I was recently talking to another player about a TPK, and the survivability of wizards. Here is a 4.0E story about how my wizard survived the last encounter, before the DM called it quits. He admitted to wanting to kill off the party. We were third level, about to hit fourth.
Our plan was for [Azechus = Tiefling Cleric of Bahamut] to involve [Bob = evil NPC with a luck blade] in a card game, with no set plan for attacking him, but to flip out when the moment was right and accuse him of cheating. We feared that if we had a plan, that Bob's luck would detect it or be prepared. However Bob seemed intent on letting Azechus win the first few games, and it wasn’t till the fifth hand that Bob won. Azechus immediately flew into a rage, Lengroh [Dragonborn Warlock] and Nagus [Human Fighter] jumped him, Jarack [Elf Wizard] cast Magic Missile, and I fired two Force Orbs (free action, wand of power). All spells missed, and Lengroh and Nagus slipped off him. I did do some damage with the secondary effects of my spells. Lengroh, Nagus and Azechus went after Bob, but were blocked by the crowd. Jarack missed with another Magic Missile. I moved closer to the door to give myself line of sight to an escape route, and cast a Flaming Sphere in front of Bob. The bar erupted into a major brawl, and Lengroh, Nagus, Azechus, Jarack and I were surrounded and being grappled. I moved my Flaming Sphere toward me which scared some people away, and I Fey Stepped toward a balcony on the other side of the road.
The bar building soon caught fire, and some fleeing locals spotted me on the balcony. I did not see any of my associates get out, but I did see Bob walk away seemingly unnoticed by the crowd and undamaged from the fight. As the crowd stormed into the building below me (I was on the second level), I ran toward the stairway to the roof and cast a Scorching Burst between myself and the angry mob. Trapped on a high roof I cast two more Scorching Burst spells at the mob that was charging me. By now the building was on fire. On the far side of the building below me were three horse-mounted deputies with swords. The roof was 20 feet high and I was no athlete, but I jumped anyway toward the right-most deputy. Using my Wand of Accuracy ability I cast Icy Rays at two of the deputies, immobilizing both. I cast Feather Fall as an immediate interrupt and landed on the horse of one of the immobilized deputies, and pushed him off. I took off on the horse with the third deputy chasing me. While fleeing I hit his horse with three of four Magic Missile spells, downing the horse and sending the deputy flying to the ground. Unfortunately there were at least a dozen more riders coming after me.
I rode out of town as quickly as possible, casting an occasional Scorching Burst at the posse chasing me to keep them at lest 50 feet behind me. Riding through the forest I chose trails at random, not knowing where I was going. A few riders (four) branched off to the left, while the rest (eight) remained safely behind me. After the trail wound a bit, I spotted an ambush up ahead. As I approached I cast Scorching Burst at the four bowmen waiting to fire on me, then grabbed one of the bows with Mage Hand preventing a good shot. However three of them fired arrows at me, and all three hit. As I passed by them I expended a Healing Surge, then was hit by two more arrows. I healed some more, but all dozen riders were still chasing me. I spotted a chasm up ahead, and the road turned to the left. As I got closer I jumped off my horse and it ran off the cliff. I found cover before the riders arrived, and I used Mage Hand to appear as though I was hanging on from the edge of the cliff, and Ghost Sounds to yell for help from that spot. As they got nearer I let go and made a Ghost Sound that resembled a person screaming as they fell. My trick worked, because they left a minute later.
Our plan was for [Azechus = Tiefling Cleric of Bahamut] to involve [Bob = evil NPC with a luck blade] in a card game, with no set plan for attacking him, but to flip out when the moment was right and accuse him of cheating. We feared that if we had a plan, that Bob's luck would detect it or be prepared. However Bob seemed intent on letting Azechus win the first few games, and it wasn’t till the fifth hand that Bob won. Azechus immediately flew into a rage, Lengroh [Dragonborn Warlock] and Nagus [Human Fighter] jumped him, Jarack [Elf Wizard] cast Magic Missile, and I fired two Force Orbs (free action, wand of power). All spells missed, and Lengroh and Nagus slipped off him. I did do some damage with the secondary effects of my spells. Lengroh, Nagus and Azechus went after Bob, but were blocked by the crowd. Jarack missed with another Magic Missile. I moved closer to the door to give myself line of sight to an escape route, and cast a Flaming Sphere in front of Bob. The bar erupted into a major brawl, and Lengroh, Nagus, Azechus, Jarack and I were surrounded and being grappled. I moved my Flaming Sphere toward me which scared some people away, and I Fey Stepped toward a balcony on the other side of the road.
The bar building soon caught fire, and some fleeing locals spotted me on the balcony. I did not see any of my associates get out, but I did see Bob walk away seemingly unnoticed by the crowd and undamaged from the fight. As the crowd stormed into the building below me (I was on the second level), I ran toward the stairway to the roof and cast a Scorching Burst between myself and the angry mob. Trapped on a high roof I cast two more Scorching Burst spells at the mob that was charging me. By now the building was on fire. On the far side of the building below me were three horse-mounted deputies with swords. The roof was 20 feet high and I was no athlete, but I jumped anyway toward the right-most deputy. Using my Wand of Accuracy ability I cast Icy Rays at two of the deputies, immobilizing both. I cast Feather Fall as an immediate interrupt and landed on the horse of one of the immobilized deputies, and pushed him off. I took off on the horse with the third deputy chasing me. While fleeing I hit his horse with three of four Magic Missile spells, downing the horse and sending the deputy flying to the ground. Unfortunately there were at least a dozen more riders coming after me.
I rode out of town as quickly as possible, casting an occasional Scorching Burst at the posse chasing me to keep them at lest 50 feet behind me. Riding through the forest I chose trails at random, not knowing where I was going. A few riders (four) branched off to the left, while the rest (eight) remained safely behind me. After the trail wound a bit, I spotted an ambush up ahead. As I approached I cast Scorching Burst at the four bowmen waiting to fire on me, then grabbed one of the bows with Mage Hand preventing a good shot. However three of them fired arrows at me, and all three hit. As I passed by them I expended a Healing Surge, then was hit by two more arrows. I healed some more, but all dozen riders were still chasing me. I spotted a chasm up ahead, and the road turned to the left. As I got closer I jumped off my horse and it ran off the cliff. I found cover before the riders arrived, and I used Mage Hand to appear as though I was hanging on from the edge of the cliff, and Ghost Sounds to yell for help from that spot. As they got nearer I let go and made a Ghost Sound that resembled a person screaming as they fell. My trick worked, because they left a minute later.
(Psi)SeveredHead
Adventurer
My own TPK report is pretty simple:
The vampire spawn in the second-last room of Keep on the Shadowfell. They didn't do much damage, but with their attack bonus of +11 (5th-level minions vs 4th level party) and high Defenses nothing could stop them, not even area attacks.
gribble
Explorer
I've had 3 TPKs that I can remember in 4e, and I don't run 4e that often. So a fairly high rate.
One thing I've observed about 4e is that combat is much more inevitable. Usually, a combat in 4e reaches a point when a TPK (or rout of the monsters) is pretty much guaranteed unless one party or the other retreats, although it's usually quite a few rounds before it actually happens.
It's much harder to have a "miracle turn" that swings a combat back from the brink of disaster (for either side). In fact I've only encountered it once in so far in all the 4e games I've run/played, and that required my character and another character to both roll a natural 20 and then have a couple of really lucky turns (in terms of not getting hit again by the monster, and then rolling really well to hit and damage him).
I'm not sure if I'd consider this a feature or a bug - it has both positive and negative implications on gameplay. But I think that's why a lot of DMs of 4e seem to either think TPKs occur very frequently (those who push their players and/or have unoptimised PCs are more likely to end up in an inevitably bad situation) or never (those who tend to be kind and/or have optimised PCs so are usually in the inevitably good situation).
One thing I've observed about 4e is that combat is much more inevitable. Usually, a combat in 4e reaches a point when a TPK (or rout of the monsters) is pretty much guaranteed unless one party or the other retreats, although it's usually quite a few rounds before it actually happens.
It's much harder to have a "miracle turn" that swings a combat back from the brink of disaster (for either side). In fact I've only encountered it once in so far in all the 4e games I've run/played, and that required my character and another character to both roll a natural 20 and then have a couple of really lucky turns (in terms of not getting hit again by the monster, and then rolling really well to hit and damage him).
I'm not sure if I'd consider this a feature or a bug - it has both positive and negative implications on gameplay. But I think that's why a lot of DMs of 4e seem to either think TPKs occur very frequently (those who push their players and/or have unoptimised PCs are more likely to end up in an inevitably bad situation) or never (those who tend to be kind and/or have optimised PCs so are usually in the inevitably good situation).
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