Dammnation

[Andor]

In your standard D&D cosmology you actually have a very monotheistic kind of set-up where the righteous go to one of the various heavens and the wicked go to the hell of your choice to serve as fuel and demon chow.

So what is it exactly that the dark gods offer that lures people into following them? It's not like evil clerics get more power or cheaper XP than good ones do.

 

[kitsune9]

In your standard D&D cosmology you actually have a very monotheistic kind of set-up where the righteous go to one of the various heavens and the wicked go to the hell of your choice to serve as fuel and demon chow.

So what is it exactly that the dark gods offer that lures people into following them? It's not like evil clerics get more power or cheaper XP than good ones do.

I've treated my campaigns the FR way--the faithful go to their respective gods, while the Faithless get to become mortar and bricks and the False get to wander around the realm of the dead. Of course, I was running FR at the time. For other campaigns, I haven't played with a "heaven and hell" concept or some other afterlife cosmology. My current campaign is KoK and it's not even an issue for me as I haven't given any thought to it.

 

[Dyson Logos]

In the minds of many, dark gods offer more chance at being noticed. In the mind of Joe farmer at least, the "good" gods aren't going to go out of their way to help him even if he keeps going to temple, not eating ankheg on moorday, and wearing a hat made of deerleaf fronds on the weekends.

However, since there are fewer followers of the "dark gods" in a civilized environment, he feels that he is "special" and has found a new calling and a small group of secret friends when he joins their cult.

 

[Fanaelialae]

There are some who would rather rule in hell than serve in heaven. It seems to me that those who have served their dark god well would be rewarded in some manner in their afterlife (probably a position of power over those souls who failed their god, perhaps even "promoted" into some form of powerful supernatural servitor).

In addition, serving an evil god would have worldly benefits as well. Bahamut expects you to be nice and help out those dirty peasants. Bane, on the other hand, tells you that those vermin should kneel before you (and by extension, before Bane himself) and that if they won't, you have every right to force them to kneel or die. If Bane's message is what you want out of life, you're very unlikely to worship Bahamut.

Finally, even if Bane's plane is one of torment, there's nothing to say that that's what his clergy believe. Even if he torments every last one of his followers after their souls come to him, he probably doesn't share that even with his high priests. Rather, he likely tells them that if they are faithful they will be awarded with power and prestige in the afterlife, standing but one step below Bane himself. Bane doesn't have to be a good god (in the good to his followers sense) as long as he's a good liar.

 

[Ahnehnois]

Interesting Question; Lots of Answers

That's what liches are for.

No death, no problem.

Truly exceptional mortals may be promised instant promotion to a powerful fiend after death. Beyond that, evil religions are very deceptive. Diabolical strategies are often based around the idea of trading one's immortal soul for temporary gain (the 'faustian pact'). Not everyone sees this as being a bad idea. Demonic plans are likely more deceptive, promising things that are never given.

Who says everyone knows what happens to souls after death? Evil religions likely spread a great deal of misinformation on the topic.

There are some who would rather rule in hell than serve in heaven.

Seconded.

Perhaps even more fundamentally, some people are just born evil.

 

[Bumbles]

In your standard D&D cosmology you actually have a very monotheistic kind of set-up where the righteous go to one of the various heavens and the wicked go to the hell of your choice to serve as fuel and demon chow.

That's not very monotheistic, I don't know why you think it is either. I'm sure there is some word to describe that kind of afterlife, but I confess not knowing it.

So what is it exactly that the dark gods offer that lures people into following them? It's not like evil clerics get more power or cheaper XP than good ones do.

It would depend on the God, wouldn't it? Bane doesn't offer the same things as Vecna, who wouldn't offer what Gruumsh does...

In terms of Afterlife, I imagine Bane would offer his devoted followers a position of command in his armies. Vecna would probably betray you, but who knows, you might get some secrets. Gruumsh would probably offer you a chance to go on killing and killing and killing...

 

[Shemeska]

In your standard D&D cosmology you actually have a very monotheistic kind of set-up where the righteous go to one of the various heavens and the wicked go to the hell of your choice to serve as fuel and demon chow.

So what is it exactly that the dark gods offer that lures people into following them? It's not like evil clerics get more power or cheaper XP than good ones do.

How is that monotheistic? You don't go to reward or punishment based on how good or evil you were in life. Not at all. Your soul simply goes to the plane that most reflects its own inner nature. Metaphysical like-attracts-like. A paladin may go to Mount Celestia and find it to be a paradise, while a corrupt warlord may go to the Nine Hells of Baator and find himself in his element with eternity to practice his own brand of evil, though he'll be starting on the ground floor, so to speak.

That's for souls who don't choose a specific patron deity. If they do, they go to whatever that deity is, wherever their deific domain might happen to be. At that point, it's up that god and your own piety what happens to you. You might be rewarded by an evil god, you might be devoured by him, or rewarded by a good deity, or punished for your abuse of his tenets in life in order to reform your soul.

At times some writers have tried to slide an idea of eternal reward vs eternal damnation into the D&D cosmology of 1e-3e, where it really had no business being, but that's the exception rather than the rule.

 

[Hunter In Darkness]

Finally, even if Bane's plane is one of torment, there's nothing to say that that's what his clergy believe. Even if he torments every last one of his followers after their souls come to him, he probably doesn't share that even with his high priests. Rather, he likely tells them that if they are faithful they will be awarded with power and prestige in the afterlife, standing but one step below Bane himself. Bane doesn't have to be a good god (in the good to his followers sense) as long as he's a good liar.

Sorry a bit off track here but


Myself I think you have Banes real off. He will put you to work yes but it''s not his job to torment you. He is about order and power and he really doesn not care how he gets it. Clergy I are well traind souls already, so they would get managent type jobs. Common worshipers , well he needs workers...he needs souls to twist , they are mere items things to be used nothing more. If they prove useful then good he'll use them give them power make them his tools. Sure he may torment souls, twist them or sometimes lie. However Bane is not a good of decit, Bane brings order and power to those that want it. He is a tyrant not a devil


sorry ok back to the thread now

Evil gods dont always torment. thats demons and devils. Most evil gods see mortals as tools and clay to mold. They dont need to damn you, they offer power or something else thats worth more to you in this life then anything that comes after.

They use you, they reward you, they punish and mold you. To most evil gods souls are power like wealth and small dogs for the rich. More of a see, see look here I made him, I molded him and cut away all that useless cheff.

I f you wish sure you could make evil god domans a hell but they do not have to be. Your not being punished for sin, your not being punished for a bad life. Your going to your god not a punishment another god send ya too(unless your god wants to that is ). And your soul is his to do with as he sees fit.

 

[mlund]

I'd reference Warhammer 40,000's decades worth of fluff about the Ruinous Powers of Chaos. They attract tons of worshipers who end up as nothing but demon chew-toys. The trick with the masses is deception - the idea that the Ruinous Powers aren't actually ruinous, but liberating in some fashion. Those who survive to be more "clued in" are usually taken in by the illusion of immortality (they may not die of age, but they can still be killed). Among the truly depraved and properly initiated these Chaos Champions and Chaos Lords are vying for the all-too-real possibility of winding up as a truly immortal Daemon Prince.

- Marty Lund

 

[wingsandsword]

Well, why do characters worship evil deities (or live evil lives) if they fear damnation to the lower planes?

1. For mortal power. People can be really short-sighted, and selling their souls for some magical power, wealth, political power or the like during their mortal existence is quite plausible. This goes double (or more) for anybody who thinks they can cheat their final death through lichdom (or becoming a vampire, death knight or other intelligent undead) or other magical means of extending lifespan.

2. Better to rule in Hell than serve in Heaven. Others have said it, and it's true for many people. Who said that the souls of the wicked spend all eternity cast into hellfire? That's for the noobs or the people with evil souls but not enough drive to get ahead. Those with some potential for real evil (or made a deal before they died, book early and avoid the rush) could end up promoted to being various kinds of fiends. Become a devil, daemon or demon, start out on the bottom, but after a few centuries (or millennia) you might end up as a Balor or Pit Fiend yourself. In Forgotten Realms, there are even fiendish "recruiters" that roam the realm of Kelemvor, the God of Death, and offer some evil souls good deals with becoming fiends to get out of their just desserts that will come when they end up in the realm of their deity soon (or those who didn't follow any god or denied the gods in life, thus dooming their soul to an eternity as a building block in Kelemvor's Castle). Better to be a devil than a cinderblock in the afterlife.

3. They just plain don't care or don't think about it. I can't go too far on this for real world religious reasons, but there are several real world religions that have doctrines or teachings about an afterlife but de-emphasize or almost completely ignore those aspects. Lawful Evil religions bury the stuff about eternity in Baator in the fine print, while Chaotic Evil ones have a "live for today!" teaching that tells you not to worry about what happens afterwards.