Question for Scott Rouse re: Retroclones

[joethelawyer]

I'm not 100% positive about what Steve said, but I'm certain that Clark used some heavy language against OSRIC in a thread here on ENWorld about one year ago. Being a fan of NG (and to a lesser extent also of TLG) I was somewhat disappointed with this stances, but this hasn't prevented me from still buying product from them that I liked.

The exact quote was:

http://www.enworld.org/forum/genera...-4e-gaming-system-license-13.html#post4317927

Tree, would you quite it please.

OSRIC is, in my view, 100% illegal and infringing. I wouldnt touch it with a 10 foot pole. And doing what you call for is, in my view, similarly illegal.

Please quite holding up the fact that Wizards find OSRIC too irrelevant to take action against as some evdence of its legality.


Clark Peterson
Necromancer Games
Necromancer Games: 3rd Edition Rules, 1st Edition Feel

_______


And thanks for the kudos for my other response, guys. Sorry about the ranty nature and length of it.

 

[Nikosandros]

The exact quote was

Yes, there was that post, but also this one. The "worse" part (from my POV, naturally) was

You just know it is wrong. Its like Napster

Where OSRIC is compared to illegal file sharing.

 

[lrsach01]

From WotC's point of view, it might be a case of plausible deniability. If they don't know about something, they don't have to act on it. OSRIC might be below the level concern for WotC and if they don't say anything public about it, they might not have to "do" anything about it. By leaving things nebulous, WotC doesn't have to address a flee and BIGGER names will avoid (too much to lose of the giant awakens). Frankly, if you (joe) want to provoke something, you need to do it a way that someone at the company answers the question in a public forum. ENWorld is not that type of forum. It's too easy to ignore this type of discussion... or at least deny reading it. Something like a public QnA session at GenCon WOULD be. Or even better, in a court setting of some sort.

 

[Ourph]

Also remember that both of those gents are businessmen and are running for-profit businesses, while OSRIC is more of a fan based thing, so there is more risk if you're a publisher.

Where is this "it's a fan thing" coming from? OSRIC is, and always has been, about people creating and selling 1e compatible adventures and supplements. The very first OSRIC adventure ever published was released by Expeditious Retreat Press, one of the bigger and better known 3PPs in the RPG industry. They remain one of the most active publishers of OSRIC material. Are you seriously suggesting that XRP is a "fan operation"??

 

[Oni]

I'm offering them an opportunity to carry out not just the corporate mission statement to make money, but to help other aspects of the hobby out, which by all accounts has little or no impact on their bottom line.

Some opportunity this is. The opportunity to do something they could do anytime they felt like it? You aren't giving them anything. And it's not much of an opportunity anyway when any kind of statement could come back to haunt them, and most assuredly no matter what is said will be twisted into more fuel for the disgruntled. I suspect you know that as well.

 

[joethelawyer]

Some opportunity this is. The opportunity to do something they could do anytime they felt like it? You aren't giving them anything. And it's not much of an opportunity anyway when any kind of statement could come back to haunt them, and most assuredly no matter what is said will be twisted into more fuel for the disgruntled. I suspect you know that as well.

Like others have said, they have had a few years to do it and have not yet. The opportunity cmes through the "uncomfortableness" this thread may cause in them. They can choose to support the hobby in the uncomfortable moment, or the bottom line. Hence the opportunity which didn't exist before due to the lack of anyone every asking the question directly.

As to it coming back to haunt them through people being disgruntled---I can't see who would be disgruntled if WOTC said "Go ahead and develop the retroclones, they are hereby declared to be not violative of our IP rights. You ave a license to sell them and develop for them."

 

[Lord Xtheth]

I'm not anything close to a WoTC fat cat, but with past occurances in mind I can assume the official statement would be to send a "Cease and desist" notice, pending further legal action.

It makes the most sense to me, and enough websites have vanished this way that I think it's been proven.

Though I do agree with you Joe, sometimes it is nice to ask a question just to see if it'll get answered.

 

[Bumbles]

The opportunity cmes through the "uncomfortableness" this thread may cause in them.

I think you overestimate exactly how much that is. I'd put it somewhere below zero actually.

 

[joethelawyer]

I think you overestimate exactly how much that is. I'd put it somewhere below zero actually.

Hey, ya gotta try man.

 

[Morrus]

Whether the question gets answered or not, its still a valid question that in my mind, and the minds of others, deserves an answer. I'm sorry if Scott feels uncomfortable answering it, but frankly that's his job.

I think you are mistaken as to Scott Rouse's job. His job isn't to say "how high?" whenever joethelawyer says "jump"! It isn't to make binding legal statements on the internet in response to random posters who just yesterday were crowing how karmic it was that their products get pirated.

I'm offering them an opportunity to carry out not just the corporate mission statement to make money, but to help other aspects of the hobby out, which by all accounts has little or no impact on their bottom line.

You aren't "offering" them anything. If they choose to make any policy statements, they will do so according to their own procedures. They won't do so on a thread on the internet, and nor should they.

I also admit that at this point I am gradually coming around to the point of view that I don't really care if WOTC fails, due to my feelings of how they have treated thir customers.

Yes, Joe. That's clear. We all gathered that.

It's highly likely that this question never gets answered. I know that. That doesn't mean it doesn't deserve an answer, and therefore someone should pose the question.

IF it "deserves" an answer (which is a premise I don't agree with in the first place - they don't owe you an answer), you aren't the person who deserves that answer. Any legal relationship betwene a company and WotC is a private relationship; you aren't privy to that and, again, nor should you be.

If you produce an OSRIC-like system, then contact WotC directly. A third party callng them out on a random thread on teh intrawebs? Not so much.

The thing is, you know this, Joe. You say you're a lawyer, right? Does your company make legal policy on random messageboards when someone on the internet posts a thread demanding that they do so? No, of course not.