Improved Trip question.

[neth123]

Do you gain the benefits of Improved trip when tripping with a weapon. The feat description led me to believe you only get the bonus when unarmed.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

You get the +4 and the follow-up attack regardless of whether you're using the weapon or not. Those are all separate benefits of the feat.

 

[frankthedm]

Do you gain the benefits of Improved trip when tripping with a weapon. The feat description led me to believe you only get the bonus when unarmed.

The separation by the period means the two sentences are not reliant on each other.


Improved Trip [General]
Prerequisites
Int 13, Combat Expertise.
Benefit
You do not provoke an attack of opportunity when you attempt to trip an opponent while you are unarmed. You also gain a +4 bonus on your Strength check to trip your opponent.
If you trip an opponent in melee combat, you immediately get a melee attack against that opponent as if you hadn’t used your attack for the trip attempt.
Normal
Without this feat, you provoke an attack of opportunity when you attempt to trip an opponent while you are unarmed.
Special
At 6th level, a monk may select Improved Trip as a bonus feat, even if she does not have the prerequisites.
A fighter may select Improved Trip as one of his fighter bonus feats.

 

[neth123]

Thanks.

Hmm, we just switched to 3.5 from 2nd Edition last night. Been playing 2e for about 15 years. I really need to learn these rules, a lot of my players know more than me and I can't keep up.

I had a 1st level fighter with Improved Trip pretty much dominate the battlefield today. He would trip something; he would attack, then all the nearby players would finish him off with AoO's when the poor guy tried to get up. I'm not sure how the creatures strategies would have evolved to stop simple combos like this from ruining them. It seems like the boss fights are gonna be too easy these days.

Thanks for the help.

 

[frankthedm]

Thanks.

Hmm, we just switched to 3.5 from 2nd Edition last night. Been playing 2e for about 15 years. I really need to learn these rules, a lot of my players know more than me and I can't keep up.

then one of them should be them one running a 3.5 game. EDIT: i think that came off as ruder than I intended. i just meant that one of the people who know the system are the ones who should be running it, rather than the system masters sitting on the PC side playing "surprise the dm with new rules he has not gotten the hang of"

I had a 1st level fighter with Improved Trip pretty much dominate the battlefield today. He would trip something; he would attack, then all the nearby players would finish him off with AoO's when the poor guy tried to get up. I'm not sure how the creatures strategies would have evolved to stop simple combos like this from ruining them. It seems like the boss fights are gonna be too easy these days.

The AoO on standing up was a big mistake added to the 3.5 ruleset. It further devalues the challenge posed by medium creatures.

 

[NewJeffCT]

Thanks.

Hmm, we just switched to 3.5 from 2nd Edition last night. Been playing 2e for about 15 years. I really need to learn these rules, a lot of my players know more than me and I can't keep up.

I had a 1st level fighter with Improved Trip pretty much dominate the battlefield today. He would trip something; he would attack, then all the nearby players would finish him off with AoO's when the poor guy tried to get up. I'm not sure how the creatures strategies would have evolved to stop simple combos like this from ruining them. It seems like the boss fights are gonna be too easy these days.

Thanks for the help.

Then, have the bad guys trip them in return. Bad guys do have minions that can surround a tripped PC.

Or, use bad guys with speed that can outrun the PCs and hit them from range and avoid melee altogether... or, low level flying bad guys... or, just bad guys in an elevated position (treetops, rooftops, ridge line above the players, etc) so they can avoid melee.

And, a good way to slow them down at a low level is using "Entangle" - it's got a huge area of effect (40' radius) and is tough to beat at a low level. Just one Entangle and have some minions hit them with arrows while the players attempt to get out of the Entangle.

 

[Flatus Maximus]

Another way to nullify trip-builds: the spell stand, from PHB2. Cast as an immediate action, the target can stand without provoking an AoO. IMHO, use sparingly so as not to upset the player playing the Fighter.

 

[Runestar]

PHB2 also has this feat which allows a creature to stand up from prone as a swift action, though it requires ranks in tumble and balance (which most monsters will not have).

Alternatively, just throw larger monsters at them.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

There's also a DC 35 tumble check to stand as a free action (forget if you still provoke an AoO or not) in Complete Adventurer.

There's also my favorite option, the 600 gp boots of agile leaping, from magic item compendium, which allow you to stand from prone as a swift action without an AoO if you have 5 ranks in balance. THe boots also let you use dex instead of str on jump checks, and are totally worth even paying +50% to tack onto another pair of boots or paying x2 for a non-body slot.

There are two skill tricks that let you stand from prone as a swift or immediate action (one skill trick for each) that require tumble ranks to get. Skil tricks are in Complete Scoundrel.

Barring ALL of that...yeah, tripping's great against medium/small humanoids. Anything that's bigger, has many legs, huge str/dex, flying, etc...? Not so much. Just throw a greater variety of enemy types at the party, so trip only dominates some of the time. Heck, you can't even do it on creatures more than one size larger than you. And if there's not a great chance of success, failure could lead to the PC on his back. In my group, people don't usually bother with tripping unless they have a fairly good advantage on the opposed check (or they stop trying once they realize they don't have one).

 

[Vegepygmy]

When all else fails, use your standard action for Total Defense (+4 to AC) and your move action to stand up; this effectively cancels out the -4 penalty to your AC for being prone when you stand, so none of those attacks of opportunity get a "bonus" to hit you.

Or, if it's an option, go on Total Defense and don't stand up (thus, no attacks of opportunity, and effectively no penalty to your AC against any regular attacks directed at you). Wait for help to arrive.

In any case, don't despair. Improved Trip tends to be very effective at low levels, but a lot less so as you go up.