Edition wars need to stop.

[Fifth Element]

If the math demonstrates that a mechanic does not work, then the mechanic does not work. There is no arguing with factual data.

It's not the data that's the problem, it's the "does not work" part. That's subjective. Some people believe the skill challenges work just fine as originally published, regardless of how the math works. There's no objective definition of "does not work".

 

[Intense_Interest]

Calling other people trolls because they disagree with you in a post calling for the end of Trolling behavior.

Wow.

 

[B.T.]

Fifth Element: You are correct, to some degree. Perhaps the developers did indeed intend for skill challenges to be impossible to "win" or "lose." But the troll should explain his point of view rather than purposely goading the poster to post angrily.

Intense_Interest: I am pointing out problematic posting habits. But you are talking about me rather than the content of my post. Is there anything in particular that you disagree with?

 

[jbear]

Hmmm, I don't consider I have participated on any side of the edition war.

Actually I've occaisionally expressed my total disgust towards threadcrapping on one side of the fence or the other.

Personally I've enjoyed all editions of dnd that I've played.

I do wonder, however, about the wisdom of your post. You criticise edition wars and different forms of trolling, yet you only post examples of trolling that 4e fans are guilty of. Quite noticibly in each and every example.

I'm sure you have good intentions... but...you could have thought that one through a little better if you wanted to appear neutral at least.

Personally I think things have improved a lot at Enworld. I can't comment on the other forums. I think the Mods here are pretty reasonable and switched on as well.

I don't think our hobby is in danger of dying. Even if I didn't have books or dice I would still teach my children the best role-playing game I could make up off the top of my head. All I would need would be a piece of paper, a pencil and a deep well of limitless imagination (which I carry with me wherever I go...the imagination that is, not the paper and a pencil...).

 

[B.T.]

I do wonder, however, about the wisdom of your post. You criticise edition wars and different forms of trolling, yet you only post examples of trolling that 4e fans are guilty of. Quite noticibly in each and every example.

Even if the example used portrays one group in a negative manner, rest assured that I am not blaming one group over another. The example is merely that—an example. Analogous situations can be drawn for either party.

Poster; Hey, guys, I was wondering what your common house rules for 4e are.

Troll: Play 3e.

[Begin mini-edition war.]

And the Frank Trollman example calls out neither party.

 

[Fifth Element]

Fifth Element: You are correct, to some degree. Perhaps the developers did indeed intend for skill challenges to be impossible to "win" or "lose." But the troll should explain his point of view rather than purposely goading the poster to post angrily.

I recall the thread to which you refer here. As I recall, the "troll"'s position was explained in the thread, basically the same way I have explained it: that "broken" is not an objective term.

Again, this is the problem that jdrakeh pointed out: your recollection of what was posted is used as an example of trolling, regardless of whether or not it was actually said.

I understand your desire to not name names, I suppose, but if you don't have actual quotes then the possibility of misrepresentation creeps in.

I don't disagree that some trolling goes on here. I don't think it's as rampant as you portray it, and I agree with jbear that it's better than it once was. IMHO, It's still the best D&D forum on the net, and is in no danger of losing that status.

 

[jbear]

And the Frank Trollman example calls out neither party.

Ok, fair enough.

The very short one at the beginning.

And I read yur assurance.

And yet I didn't perceive your neutrality. Maybe it is just me.

Anyway I agree with your sentiment. But you're talking to the converted.

I do have certain doubts as to the posiivity or change in attitudes that your post is likely to generate. I'll take it at face value. I agree with the title. Edition wars need to end.

 

[Ulrick]

Since the Edition Wars began, I've had some questions:

What fronts have seen the most fighting?
What are the crucial military objectives? And have any been destroyed?
Who are the major generals and heroes of the conflict?
Has new technology been introduced that has given one side an advantage over the other?
Who are the neutrals?
Has any side been pushed to a wartime economy (rationing, hyperproduction, conscription, etc.)?
Has there ever been a Edition Cold War with threats of mutually assured destruction?

Most importantly: Who's winning?


If you've answered any or all of these questions with "What hell are you talking about?", then there really isn't any Edition War at all--just a bunch of people arguing about the best edition of a role playing game! I understand that EN World rules forbid people from arguing about politics and religion, but there are far more important things to argue about than D&D.

Frankly, if I was faced with a choice of not playing D&D and playing an edition I don't like very well, I'd still play the edition I don't like very well. Because I rather play. D&D is a game; is meant to be played.

I've been booed for even showing the 4e books. When expressing my distaste for 4e, somebody patted me on the back for "seeing the light." Somebody yelled at me for even expressing an interest for playing AD&D: "AD&D sucks! You can get experience buy just dumping boiling water on an anthill! Stick with 3.5e!" When I announced my 3.5e campaign, a player joined and then began griping about how 4e is better than 3.5e.

So, in response to all those people who have a "holier than thou" attitude when it comes to a certain edition and feel that they must share their viewpoint with ridicule and condemnation, I will quote Bob Newhart from a classic Mad TV skit:




STOP IT!

 

[Merlin's Shadow]

Can't we all just get along?

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whLEFUxxJvg&feature=player_embedded"]YouTube - KumBaYa (metal version)[/ame]

 

[Obryn]

Huh. "Let's stop edition warring. BTW, WotC sucks and they care more about profits than products, and it might be best if they stopped making D&D."

Interesting take on the subject, firing off some shots and then encouraging everyone to sing kum-ba-yah.

-O