Gaming Generation Gap

[jmucchiello]

I have three things:

1) Define what makes them "from an anime"

I can't answer that. I just see something in them that reminds me of what little anime I've watched. I also would not know how to tell you what specific element of a piece of artwork is a Dali or an Escher but I would recognize the style when I saw it. The reason I can't put my finger on it is because I don't study these things. I'm not versed in the lingo.

2) The old man looking into the teacup is from Monster, both an anime and manga series :3

I don't know Monster from Sailor Moon (never watched either of these). But that particular cell lacked something and whatever that something was was the thing that signals the "this is anime" flag in my visual recognition circuits in my brain.

3) Avatar and the new-ish Teen Titans (Show, not comic). Are these anime?

Never seen these cartoons. Teen Titans is Marv Wolfman and George Perez or it doesn't exist in my universe. Based on limited images found on the web I would classify them as anime. Based on the wikipedia articles it seems that's what they were going for. (And the TT stuff makes my eyes bleed.)

All you've said is "Yeah they're all anime." Does that mean they all look the same, or do your recognize that almost all of those pictures differs from the others?

At one time, I read manga regularly. I've read Lone Wolf and Cub, Area 88, Akira, Mai the Psychic Girl and Lum. I was also into the manga influenced Ninja High School at the time. I haven't read any of them in over 10 years though. There is a stylistic quality that runs through them all and it carries over into anime. All the pictures in the jpeg have that stylistic quality. Obviously they come from many different stories by many different artist workshops. But "they are anime" all the same. Only the cell I pointed out seemed more western than Japanese.

No, all anime does not "look the same" but most share some qualities that I can't specify even if my brain notices it.

 

[Mercutio01]

It's interesting. The former two are very much animation universals. A lot of hay is made over, for instance, Bugs Bunny's "baby face": the proportions are all out of whack, because characters are cuter with bigger eyes and smaller mouths (except when laughing). Of course, the effect is more subtle on humans than it is on other things.

The difference is, in characters like Yosemite Sam, everything is out of proportion. He's short, wide, with a ridiculous handlebar mustache, but the facial features are, and here's the key, in proportion with the style of the character.

In anime (caveat, anime that I have watched or know of), the proportions are closer to standard reality with the disproportion most evidenced in facial structure. Take Goku in this photo. His body proportions are roughly correct. But his head is too small, his eyes entirely too large, and you practically need a microscope to see his nose and mouth.

There is a cultural difference in art style. But that difference is getting smaller. As far as D&D goes, none of those things are very applicable: art style isn't very relevant to what happens at the table.

Sorry for continuing the off-topic discussion.

 

[Doug McCrae]

Teen Titans is Marv Wolfman and George Perez or it doesn't exist in my universe.

Old school.

 

[Gentlegamer]

"Teen Titans is Marv Wolfman and George Perez or it doesn't exist in my universe."

The Geoff Johns run a few years ago was pretty good.

 

[kitsune9]

The following is just an example of a greater point:





I didn't start getting into real RPGs until around 1998 - when I was a freshman in HS. I can count on my hand the number of 2e AD&D sessions I played. It also means that my first legitimate fantasy fiction was Forgotten Realms novels, not literature.

So, I find myself in an odd place around here, and with quite a few folks I play with: talk of starting with Box sets, growing up on Moorcock/Leiber/Tolkien/etc etc etc. It's like sitting in a room with a bunch of old timers waxing about the Good Ol' Days when you weren't born yet. You can't relate.

There is also this undercurrent of an expectation, of how the Old Ways and Old Books color the eyes of folks here. An assumption everyone's played it, or should play it, and that all the tastes of the Old Timers ruminate from the early days. So, as a youngin, I don't really know how to grasp at it; it's a generation gap.

The interesting thing is that it's a generation gap of CULTURE, not age. I'd say that most of those with fond memories of the Box Set are in their mid thirties to mid forties. I, being 25, am not too much younger than that, but it's a definitely different experience.

So for me it's almost a disconnect, having little reference beyond the second hand information of posters here saying how things were, or talking about oldschool literature.

This isn't me complaining or saying I'm feeling inadequate. I just find it an interesting dynamic.

It also makes me wonder how, as the community ages and new, younger gamers come in, what the culture will be, where the RPG Community touchstones will be, and what qualifies you for a "Geek Card". For instance, a few months ago there was a thread asking "Those 25 and under, what of this long list of D&D inspiration material (Leiber, Moorcock, Tolkein, etc) have you read?" I'd say that 90% of the respondents 25 and under had read three or less.

Actually my novels growing up would be Forgotten Realms and Dragonlance. I didn't get into Moorcock, Tolkien, etc. Yet, I don't fit in the 25 under demographic by quite a few years. Reading wasn't something that was generally appreciated in my family (my grandmother on one side of family had no books whatsoever, my grandparents on my father's side had a few books if you wanted to fix your car, and so on with my family) and when I started working was when I started buying fantasy books.

 

[WizarDru]

INever seen these cartoons. Teen Titans is Marv Wolfman and George Perez or it doesn't exist in my universe.

Bob Haney's ghost will haunt you. THAT is old school. You kids and your New Teen Titans. Sheesh.

 

[Doug McCrae]

Bob Haney's ghost will haunt you. THAT is old school. You kids and your New Teen Titans. Sheesh.

You're right. I think of the Wolfman/Perez Titans as old school because it's the version I grew up with. But yeah, nothing with 'New' in the title can truly be old school.

 

[Aeolius]

You're right. I think of the Wolfman/Perez Titans as old school because it's the version I grew up with. But yeah, nothing with 'New' in the title can truly be old school.

As opposed to The Real Ghostbusters , not to be confused with The Ghost Busters or Ghostbusters ?

 

[TwinBahamut]

Read my prior response in order. It is a flow of realizing what you are saying and how it relates to the whole thread.

...


Have I made sense yet?

Yes, that clears it up quite a bit. Thank you.

I suppose I have to agree. As things stand, I am unlikely to see D&D break out of a traditional fantasy mold. Maybe I should just send them an email or something... I am sure that waiting 10 years would probably work, but I'm a bit too impatient for that.

 

[TwinBahamut]

The difference is, in characters like Yosemite Sam, everything is out of proportion. He's short, wide, with a ridiculous handlebar mustache, but the facial features are, and here's the key, in proportion with the style of the character.

In anime (caveat, anime that I have watched or know of), the proportions are closer to standard reality with the disproportion most evidenced in facial structure. Take Goku in this photo. His body proportions are roughly correct. But his head is too small, his eyes entirely too large, and you practically need a microscope to see his nose and mouth.

Sorry for continuing the off-topic discussion.

You know what, I think I really need to disagree with a couple of the points you make here.

I think you are flat out mistaken in saying that western animation faces have facial features in proportion while anime faces have small noses and mouths. In this case, I think it is a lot more fair to say that anime has fairly realistically proportioned noses and mouths (outside of exaggerated expressions, where mouth tend to get much larger than what is realistic). Actually, there are more than a few famous anime characters with ludicrously huge noses, too, especially in older anime classics like Astro Boy or Cyborg 009, or newer anime that is referencing those old classics.

On the other hand, I would say that many staples of western animation, like Warner Bros. animation, tend to draw characters with disproportionately huge mouths (in addition to very large eyes!). If you look at them, many Warner Bros. characters have cheekbones that look horribly swollen (much wider than the rest of their head) simply so they can fit their huge mouths on their faces.

To a certain extent, I think people tend to recognize anime not because it is stylized, but because it lacks certain stylized elements that you see in western animation. Western animation is defined by characters who are ridiculously misproportioned and highly stylized, whether it is the gigantic head and feet of Mickey Mouse, the tall bodies, big muscles, small heads, and beady eyes of classic superhero animation, or the characters with huge heads and noodle-like limbs from Tim Burton's clay animation like The Nightmare Before Christmas.