DDI monster builder vs. Expected Norms

[Mesh Hong]

Has anyone who has access to the official DDI Monster Builder made a comparison between its output and what you would expect from the design guidelines from the DMG1, or from the output from Asmor Monster Maker?

I have been reading through Derulbaskul's first batch of creatures created with the DDI tool in the A Multitude of Monsters thread and his figures for AC, and NADS seem to be different from what I would expect. I am trying to figure out if this is due to a design change (maybe it uses a new formula that will be included in DMG2), or an error on his or my part.

Any comments from people in a position to help would be welcome.

Thanks

 

[Dalzig]

The moster builder uses the DMG2 guidelines. Among the changes are elite/solo defenses no longer raising and solos having 4*HP not 5*HP.

There are also a bunch of options "behind-the-scenes" that would change how the final stats come out.

 

[Sporemine]

I don't have insider so this is helpful. I think that the asmor monster maker will continue to work well for me (at least until I find a way to get the WoTC monster builder).

Kudos

-Sporemine

 

[Garthanos]

A months subscribe to DDi is a horribly good deal in my opinion I signed up for three.... very cool... CB is awesome (and you get access to the nice back issues)

 

[Derulbaskul]

Mesh Hong,

Why don't you give me ten or so basic builds (eg, lurker 10, controller 5 etc...) and I will generate them and attach them as a file here? I can't answer your question because these are first real monster building attempts and I've been doing them simply using the builder without referring to the DM.

 

[Mesh Hong]

Thanks for the reply Dalzig

The moster builder uses the DMG2 guidelines. Among the changes are elite/solo defenses no longer raising and solos having 4*HP not 5*HP.

This I can live with, and at least seems logical.

There are also a bunch of options "behind-the-scenes" that would change how the final stats come out.

This I have no way of predicting, I suppose I will just have to wait until I see the DMG2.

Overall this puts me in something of a dilema. From my own experience I didn't see anything wrong with elites and solos getting bonuses to defences and x5 HPs over level 10, (in fact I have run solos with more then x5 HPs in my own game without any issues). The problem with a lot of creatures but especially Solos was that they didn't do enough damage or were simply too dull, which was easy to tweek when creating my own monsters.

 

[Mesh Hong]

Why don't you give me ten or so basic builds (eg, lurker 10, controller 5 etc...) and I will generate them and attach them as a file here?

Thanks Derulbaskul for the offer.

I have created the base numbers I would expect for a monster, only adding the +3 bonus to its primary stat, I have kept all the other stats for the creature at base.

(when designing a creature for real I would base the defences from the stats of the creature which would produce a variance of +/- 1, sometimes +/- 2 but I think it is best to ignore that in the first test)

Level 1 Artillery (primary stat Dex 16, others all 13)
HP: 25
AC: 13
Fortitude: 13
Reflex: 14
Will: 13

Level 15 Artillery (primary stat Dex 23, other all 20)
HP: 116
AC: 27
Fortitude: 27
Reflex: 28
Will: 27

Level 1 Brute (primary stat Str 16, others all 13)
HP: 33
AC: 13
Fortitude: 14
Reflex: 13
Will: 13

Level 15 Brute (primary stat Str 23, other all 20)
HP: 180
AC: 27
Fortitude: 28
Reflex: 27
Will: 27

Level 1 Controller (primary stat Chr 16, others all 13)
HP: 29
AC: 15
Fortitude: 13
Reflex: 13
Will: 14

Level 15 Controller (primary stat Chr 23, other all 20)
HP: 148
AC: 29
Fortitude: 27
Reflex: 27
Will: 28

Level 1 Lurker (primary stat Dex 16, others all 13)
HP: 25
AC: 15
Fortitude: 13
Reflex: 14
Will: 13

Level 15 Lurker (primary stat Dex 23, other all 20)
HP: 116
AC: 29
Fortitude: 27
Reflex: 28
Will: 27

Level 1 Skirmisher (primary stat Dex 16, others all 13)
HP: 29
AC: 15
Fortitude: 13
Reflex: 14
Will: 13

Level 15 Skirmisher (primary stat Dex 23, other all 20)
HP: 148
AC: 29
Fortitude: 27
Reflex: 28
Will: 27

Level 1 Soldier (primary stat Str 16, others all 13)
HP: 29
AC: 17
Fortitude: 14
Reflex: 13
Will: 13

Level 15 Soldier (primary stat Str 23, other all 20)
HP: 148
AC: 31
Fortitude: 28
Reflex: 27
Will: 27

Expectations
I would expect the DDI monster creator would come out with exactly the same numbers as this is the very simplest form of monster creation.

I suspect that an area where it differs could be how it handles altered stats specifically if it uses them to calculate the Defences.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Thanks for the reply Dalzig



This I can live with, and at least seems logical.



This I have no way of predicting, I suppose I will just have to wait until I see the DMG2.

Overall this puts me in something of a dilema. From my own experience I didn't see anything wrong with elites and solos getting bonuses to defences and x5 HPs over level 10, (in fact I have run solos with more then x5 HPs in my own game without any issues). The problem with a lot of creatures but especially Solos was that they didn't do enough damage or were simply too dull, which was easy to tweek when creating my own monsters.

I think their fix was to reduce hit points but increase damage. But only DMG 2 will tell us the specifics. The MM2 at least indicates it.

 

[Mesh Hong]

I think their fix was to reduce hit points but increase damage. But only DMG 2 will tell us the specifics. The MM2 at least indicates it.

Yes thats what I thought but Derulbaskul posted some creatures created with the DDI monster maker that had Defences worryingly different to what I would have expected.

I am just trying to figure out what has caused the difference so that I am in a position to either reconsider my design assumptions or give out informed advice.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I haven't noticed the defense scores, but I noticed that the ability scores seemed to be off. If I remember correctly, the highest of each "defense pair" stat should be 13 +1/2 level, and one should be 16 + 1/2 level. Some of the numbers were off, but I don't remember exactly which one. Maybe that results in different defense scores, too? Either because the values become adjusted above their original score, or start lower?