How is Old School not at least related to nostalgia?

[Mercurius]

I've heard claims that "Old School" gaming has nothing to do with nostalgia. I don't see it. To me Old School is, at the very least, strongly influenced by nostalgia. And you know what? It doesn't matter. It doesn't denigrate Old School unless you think nostalgia is a bad thing. Let's just see it for what it is: people interested in "Old School" gaming, or the "Old School Renaissance", are looking to recapture something from the past. What that is varies, but I think it generally has to do with a sense of child-like wonder--or whatever positive feelings one associates with such older games (wonder is almost always central, ime).

This sort of wonder is not limited to the self-proclaimed Old School of gaming; actually I would say that it is part of most gamers' experience, a craving for magic and wonder. Where Old School differs is that they think older iterations of RPGs are better capable of finding and capturing What is Best in Life. Thus the relationship to nostalgia, or another variant of nostalgia: All (or at least most) adult gamers are nostalgic in wanting to experience wonderment and a sense of magic that was more readily attainable during childhood, but Old Schoolers up this a notch by seeing it as better (or even only) attainable through older (versions/editions of) games.

Again, nothing wrong with that. But how is this not at least heavily influenced by nostalgia?

p.s Here's some definitions for y'all:

Old School.

 

[billd91]

Wiktionary defines nostalgia as a noun:

nostalgia (plural nostalgias)

1. A severe longing for home or familiar surroundings; homesickness.
2. A bittersweet yearning for the things of the past.

Wanting to play the way you like to play, assuming that way is old school, doesn't necessarily incorporate this sort of emotional context. The differences may be subtle in preferences for methods that happen to be old and true nostalgia, but I think they're there.

 

[rogueattorney]

How is the love for 4e not at least partially related to the ephemeral draw of the new and shiny? I mean, there's nothing wrong with liking things just because they're new and shiny. Me saying that someone likes 4e only because it's the new, hot thing is in no way pejorative. Why should anyone be offended?

 

[Hussar]

But that's not quite what nostalgia means though. Nostalgia does not make any real commentary on what you are being nostalgic for. I could be nostalgic for something great or something really bad. The reason I am being nostalgic for it though is entirely personal and really has nothing whatsoever to do with the quality of something.

Saying that I only want something because it's new and shiny only works so long as its new and shiny. 4e's been out for quite a while now - almost as long as 3e before the revision. Does that still qualify as "new and shiny"?

 

[Philotomy Jurament]

I made my saving throw and will not be posting further in this thread.

 

[Mercurius]

How is the love for 4e not at least partially related to the ephemeral draw of the new and shiny? I mean, there's nothing wrong with liking things just because they're new and shiny. Me saying that someone likes 4e only because it's the new, hot thing is in no way pejorative. Why should anyone be offended?

There is a big difference in how I am phrasing what I am saying and in how you are phrasing what you are saying. I used phrases like "is at least related" or "heavily influenced by" (nostalgia). You started with "at least partially related to" and then ended up with "just because" and "only because."

But I agree with the gist of what you are saying: A new edition is attraction partially because it is new and shiny, but--as with nostalgia as an influence on Old Schoolism--only partially.

 

[Mercurius]

I made my saving throw and will not be posting further in this thread.

Against what? Death magic, petrification, rods, or heat lamps?

 

[Mercurius]

But that's not quite what nostalgia means though. Nostalgia does not make any real commentary on what you are being nostalgic for. I could be nostalgic for something great or something really bad. The reason I am being nostalgic for it though is entirely personal and really has nothing whatsoever to do with the quality of something.

I don't follow you. Nostalgia implies yearning or longing for something gone or of the past. You're right, it doesn't have to be something specific--actually, it can be quite general (although I would argue that the experience of nostalgia is rooted in a specific experience). My feeling is that the nostalgia that is related to Old Schoolism has a specific tone to it, which of course varies with the individual, but usually has some kind of wonder and magic in it.

It would be interesting to poll D&D players on what edition they prefer and why prefer it to see what people come up with. Perhaps to stimulate a wider range of response than simply mechanical reasons, each individual would give a mechanical/design/game reason (e.g. I prefer Defenses to Saving Throws, or vice versa) and an emotive/aesthetic one. Or to put it another way, one answer for both the Left and Right brains.

 

[Cadfan]

How is the love for 4e not at least partially related to the ephemeral draw of the new and shiny? I mean, there's nothing wrong with liking things just because they're new and shiny. Me saying that someone likes 4e only because it's the new, hot thing is in no way pejorative. Why should anyone be offended?

Its definitely, 100% related to the draw of the new and shiny. I like new things. Also shiny things. I am ok with this.

I stand by my believe that the draw of old school games is rooted, at least partially, in nostalgia. My biggest reason for believing this is because most of the game types that people like to say old school games do better are in fact done better by old school games than by new school games, but are still done horribly in an objective rather than comparative sense. I mourn this a bit. I particularly miss "magical mcguyver" gameplay. It was a bit of a hack of older systems, was minimally compatible with most of the classes of the game, involved ignoring wide swaths of the rules, and 4e has dealt with these problems by exiling it to the wastelands to starve and die of exposure. I'd kind of like to see it live again, perhaps in a victorian magical/steampunk setting where every class could equally participate.

 

[Korgoth]

I've heard claims that "Old School" gaming has nothing to do with nostalgia. I don't see it. To me Old School is, at the very least, strongly influenced by nostalgia. And you know what? It doesn't matter. It doesn't denigrate Old School unless you think nostalgia is a bad thing. Let's just see it for what it is: people interested in "Old School" gaming, or the "Old School Renaissance", are looking to recapture something from the past. What that is varies, but I think it generally has to do with a sense of child-like wonder--or whatever positive feelings one associates with such older games (wonder is almost always central, ime).

This sort of wonder is not limited to the self-proclaimed Old School of gaming; actually I would say that it is part of most gamers' experience, a craving for magic and wonder. Where Old School differs is that they think older iterations of RPGs are better capable of finding and capturing What is Best in Life. Thus the relationship to nostalgia, or another variant of nostalgia: All (or at least most) adult gamers are nostalgic in wanting to experience wonderment and a sense of magic that was more readily attainable during childhood, but Old Schoolers up this a notch by seeing it as better (or even only) attainable through older (versions/editions of) games.

Again, nothing wrong with that. But how is this not at least heavily influenced by nostalgia?

p.s Here's some definitions for y'all:

Old School.

Troll.

Folks, Piratecat here. Calling someone a troll in a thread accomplishes nothing. If you see a problem, report the post using the little triangular exclamation point to the left of every post. Don't post just to say "troll."