Masterwork Armor

[Chimerasame]

to have+4 armour it must be warplate

Are you sure?

and vica versa.

This, I agree with.

I don't see anything in RAW that states you can't have a +6 enchantment on any number of different masterwork-levels of armor. Why anyone would do this is beyond me, and a GM giving out such armor in a parcel would be cruel and unusual--but I can't find the rule that says it's impossible. Can you point me to it?

 

[pascalnz]

well, in phb2 it lists armour enhancement bonus and what masterwork stuff is available.it says what level it is. there isn't an option to have a high enhancement and low masterwork quality.
I'm just working off this book as it is the most recent.

for instance item levels 16-20 feyleather, armour bonus +3, enhancement bonus +4 ,total ac bonus +7

this also works well with the whole mechanics they're trying to use.

also the reason I said your doing it wrong;P to dm was because in his post he bet someone would say he's doing it wrong before the end of the thread
I thought it was funny.

 

[Marshall]

There are multiple levels of masterwork now. To get +3 leather frex, it doesnt have to be Fey-leather. There are other +3 masterwork leather armors, swordwing etc...

 

[GMforPowergamers]

ohh gmforpowergamres I almost forgot.

your doing it wrong

yup...I knew it

He can have all of the badwrongfun he wants, but he shouldnt recommend something that is contrary to the rules without noting as such.

I even warned it might not be writgh...when I said I will probly be told I am wrong...


However just to make sure lets really look at this...

Certain kinds of armor are made according to arcane and esoteric methods that involve weaving magic into the substance of the armor. These masterwork armors never appear except as magic armor (see page 227), and even then only at the highest levels (16th and above). The various kinds of masterwork armor fall into the same categories as mundane armor and have similar statistics, but they have a higher armor bonus than their mundane counterparts. The cost of masterwork armor is included in the cost of magic armor.

just to pull out the part of the rules that I use to do what I do...

Certain kinds of armor are made according to arcane and esoteric methods that involve weaving magic into the substance of the armor.

sounds to me like it has to be made that way...so back to my orginal post:

If I drop it as a parcel yes...

If I give out any armor of level +3 or bigger I make it master work...why not...

if they make it I make them jump through some rp hoops...

I do things like have them collect rare herbs for a week, or have them harvest metal from the shadowfell/feywild now adays PCs in my games collect things for levels waiting for paragon levels to use these things... again not anything hard, just some rp becuse they are makeing something sturdier then normal armor

if they keep an old armor and just transfer the enchantment I don't give it at all...

This is the only time the PCs don't get it...and I am yet to see a rule telling me to, or a book or articale even suggest it...since you are useing weaker items why should it be all of a sudden MW???

 

[ForbidenMaster]

yup...I knew it

I even warned it might not be writgh...when I said I will probly be told I am wrong...

However just to make sure lets really look at this...


just to pull out the part of the rules that I use to do what I do...

sounds to me like it has to be made that way...so back to my orginal post:

If I give out any armor of level +3 or bigger I make it master work...why not...

I do things like have them collect rare herbs for a week, or have them harvest metal from the shadowfell/feywild now adays PCs in my games collect things for levels waiting for paragon levels to use these things... again not anything hard, just some rp becuse they are makeing something sturdier then normal armor

This is the only time the PCs don't get it...and I am yet to see a rule telling me to, or a book or articale even suggest it...since you are useing weaker items why should it be all of a sudden MW???

First let me note that the only issue I see is the transfer enchantment situation, the others are just good DMing. However the PCs shouldnt be penalized if this situation is played out:

A rogue might find potent hide armor in an ogre’s horde, but she wears leather. The holy symbol taken from a fallen foe has formidable power, but the party’s cleric of Pelor doesn’t feel like clutching a symbol of Vecna as he prays. The Transfer Enchantment ritual helps you to customize magic items by moving enchantments from one magic item to another.

AV page 199

Something so relatively minor as the situations above shouldnt warrant a massive penalty simply because it doesnt fit the fluff.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

First let me note that the only issue I see is the transfer enchantment situation, the others are just good DMing.

I kinda figured, I just wanted to make sure...

However the PCs shouldnt be penalized if this situation is played out:

A rogue might find potent hide armor in an ogre’s horde, but she wears leather. The holy symbol taken from a fallen foe has formidable power, but the party’s cleric of Pelor doesn’t feel like clutching a symbol of Vecna as he prays. The Transfer Enchantment ritual helps you to customize magic items by moving enchantments from one magic item to another

AV page 199

Something so relatively minor as the situations above shouldnt warrant a massive penalty simply because it doesnt fit the fluff.

this is also were I guess my gaames just run diffrently. If I have a symbol of vecna then it is not tresure in my eyes...if no one in my game wears hide, then I don't consider it treassure...those I count as the 1/25th resdium that they get when they dust them...

If I am giving out a level 5 item it is a useable level 5 item...

so i guess I was wrong...it is just how my games run...sorry

 

[BobTheNob]

Masterwork armor was one of the very first things we houseruled out. When you did the number crunching is soon became apparent that it was very necessary, but the itemisation issues were a pain.

Rather, we took the required growth (over 30 level, 2 for light and 6 for heavy) and built it into the feats themselves.So at level 14 for instance, if you are wearing heavy armor you are proficient with you get a +3 armor bonus, then all armor just uses the "normal" type.

It is much simpler.

 

[pascalnz]

I should have mentioned finding things to make magic stuff is quite cool, as long as everyone is enjoying it, making magic items special is always a good thing I find.

I think masterwo9rk at one point was meant to be something else interesting but they just couldn't make it work properly, so we keep the fluff. I mean it sounds cool, all the funky ways the suits are "made" and I wish there was more stuff to do with that. But you can't "make" masterwork armour , there's no rules to do it, and it's indellibly stuck with the magic it's made with.[shown by transfer enchantment]

basically the fluff is cool but grates horribly against the actual rules, of all the possibly abstract things in 4th this is the only one that gets my goat , I just can't reconcile it.

Bob I do like your folding the benefits into the proficiencies. it's slightly weaker for pc's[you could possibly get +4 plate at lvl 11 as loot] but only very marginally and it sure does feel nicer.

the other way round is to not have magic enhancement and just add it at appropriate levels and make armour a mixture of special abilities and masterwork qualities. but that way is a fair amount of work.

 

[Mahali]

Before I totally unbalance my PCs, is it typical to give the masterwork version of an armor that has the right bonus? For example, should I assume that if I'm giving away +4 plate armor that the armor is Warplate? The PHB just says that the cost of the type of armor is included with the magical armor cost.

As DMs, do you guys give away masterwork-level armor at +4 or do you make them work for it?

You'd be unbalancing the game if you don't give masterwork as treasure or allow them to buy/upgrade.

Masterwork keeps the balance of to-hit vs AC scaling through levels. Without it PC's fall behind the monsters.