Eberron Conversion Questions

[collin]

I like what you're doing, but I think it's far too much. You'll have characters swimming in magic items.

I think if players and their GM want to break the rule about magic items for characters in using PF they are going to find a way to do it. Seriously, how do you control that kind of thing in a game? The frequency with which a fantasy world is populated by magic items is really dictated by the GM/DM. Plus, bear in mind this only applies to one character class, so it would only be useful if someone were playing an artificer in a group. However, this does give some incentive for someone to play an artificer.

I see your point about the warforged. It's a 20th level ability, though. But since warforged are considered 'living constructs' it might be best to just lump them under the 'all living creatures' exception.

 

[pawsplay]

Warforged: I think +2 Con and -2 Cha is right. I think it's ok for them to come under in the ability scores department, because they have some unusual abilities. Most of their immunities should carry over. Constructs are no longer immune to crits, so light fortification should go, too.

I actually like the 4e concept of them bonding to a suit of metal armor. This fits in well with their upgrading capabilities and balances their inherent armor without getting into the area of having a natural armor bonus that is not a natural armor bonus. Just because they are made of hard materials, though, I think they should have a +1 natural armor bonus.

Artificers: These need to be reworked to a great extent. A lot of of presumed balancing factors are not present in PF.

 

[Qualidar]

I think if players and their GM want to break the rule about magic items for characters in using PF they are going to find a way to do it. Seriously, how do you control that kind of thing in a game? The frequency with which a fantasy world is populated by magic items is really dictated by the GM/DM. Plus, bear in mind this only applies to one character class, so it would only be useful if someone were playing an artificer in a group. However, this does give some incentive for someone to play an artificer.

My concern is: as early as 6th level a party with an artificer in it can double the amount of magical treasure they want to purchase. As there is no longer an XP cost, there's no reason the artificer shouldn't make all of their magic items. At 10th level they can triple the party's purchase. Instead of buying an item that a 10th level character can afford, he can get something 3 times the price.

Also, by making it a feat chain and not an artificer ability, that makes it available to anyone, so it detracts from the artificer's niche.

Constructs are no longer immune to crits, so light fortification should go, too.

That's a good point, and it gets rid of a pain in the butt ability that sort of gets in the way.

Artificers: These need to be reworked to a great extent. A lot of of presumed balancing factors are not present in PF.

Do you see anything other than the removal of XP or crafting?

 

[pawsplay]

Do you see anything other than the removal of XP or crafting?

I'm not artificer expert, but aside from looking at the crafting issues, you would also want to review all the published errata and see what you want to include. Particularly, I think it's worth pondering what the whole "neither arcane nor divine" concept could potentially mean in PF.

Eternal wands + UMD for the people = potentially strange changes to playstyles.

 

[Remathilis]

I started work on converting the artificer and found something out.

Its now redundant.

Just look at the Magic Item Creation rules. A lot of the key artificer abilities are mimicked here.

1.) Spellcraft is the universal skill that is used to make magic items. The DC is 5+ caster level. The artificer used use magic device at DC 20 + caster level to accomplish the same trick.

2.) Artificers can emulate pre-reqs (except item creation feats) they don't normally meet with a use magic device check (DC 20+CL) per missed pre-req. So can anyone else by adding +5 per missed pre-req to the spellcraft DC.

3.) Pathfinder artisans can make items while adventuring (only netting 1/2 the benefit of time) thus eliminating the artificer advantage on time.

4.) Artificers gained a craft-reserve of "XP" to spend on items. No longer needed.

5.) 5th level artificers gained retain essence, which let you recycle XP from items. No longer needed.

6.) Artificers get "Artificer knowledge" which let them identify magic items with an special level+int check and one minute. Spellcasters can cast detect magic at-will and identify items with a spellcraft check.

7.) Don't want to be spellcaster but still want to make items? Try Master Craftsman

So what's the artificer left with? Trapfinding, free-item creation feats, his infusions (many of which mimic cleric or wizard spells) meta-magic item use, a slightly higher (level+2) caster level to make magic items, and a hommoculus. Not much of a class left.

I'm interested to see what else can be done to salvage this class, because as it stands, most wizards still make better artificers.

 

[Qualidar]

That's not an invalid point. I need time to process that.

Pros off the top of my head:

• Helps set a flavor for Eberron,
• Offers an interesting blend of armored and "spellcasting",
• Helps fill in for the absence of a rogue if no one wants to play one.

Cons: everything Remalthilis said.

 

[Remathilis]

That's not an invalid point. I need time to process that.

Pros off the top of my head:

• Helps set a flavor for Eberron,
• Offers an interesting blend of armored and "spellcasting",
• Helps fill in for the absence of a rogue if no one wants to play one.

Cons: everything Remalthilis said.

I love the class, I do. Its a great class in 3.5, but Pathfinder rips a lot of the mechanical "need" of the class away. I'm stumped as to what to give it to make up for its losses.

 

[pawsplay]

You could make them a skill-based character. Bonuses to UMD and Spellcraft for various things. Maybe they could gain an energy reserve to use instead of item charges. Honestly, though, in PF they sound like they are heading right into NPC class territory... they are easy to picture as an NPC class with 6th level infusions and bonus item creation feats, and a 1st level unlimited detect magic that works on objects.

 

[Remathilis]

Ok, I tried my own hand at an artificer conversion. I tried to keep as many things as possible, but some things just went by the wayside. There is no craft reserve anymore, and spellcraft replaces use magic device as the instrument of magic item creation (though the latter is still needed to use spell-trigger/ completion items). Retain essence got kicked down the level line a bit, and all artificer bonus feats are removed and given at specific levels now (like the normal item creation feats). Overall, I think its as close a conversion as I could make, considering the new item creation rules.

 

[Qualidar]

Perhaps it will work better as a prestige class. I think I'm going to take a crack at it from that angle.

Actually - I don't think that's going to work either.