Why I'm done with 4e

[Minicol]

To the OP :

Join us man ! Play Pathfinder !

 

[Remathilis]

I know you're being honest here because I remember lots of posts where you were very favorable toward 4E.

To see such a dramatic change is surprising. I'll be interested to see how Pathfinder does for you and your group(s) in the longer term.

If you had told me that "Next year, not only would you have given up on 4e, you'd be playing two OGL games and loving it" I'd have thought you were cracked. Nevertheless, here I stand.

Will things remain perfect? No. I'll find flaws and start patching hole again. But for now, everyone is happy. Warrior fans got a boost (crit-status ailments, high-level feats and abilities) casters feel they're playing actual wizards and clerics again. Some of my concerns will remain (large statblocks, mutli-book cross-referencing SLAs) I think its a better over-all alternative to the game we want to play than 4e was.

 

[Gentlegamer]

I agree with everything that every single person has said about every single problem and every single good quality with every single edition.

I played 2e cause I didn't know any better, but it was awesome until I realized I didn't know any of the rules.

So I switched to 3e cause the rules were so much better than 2e rules, but then the Harm spell sucked so I switched to 3.5.

3.5 rocked cause they fixed a bunch of stuff that was broken in 3.0, but then 3.5 Fighters sucked, high levels sucked, and the rules bogged me down. So I switched to 4e.

4e was the bomb cause it was easy to learn & I was a badass at level 1...but the sameness sucked, and pigeonholed roles sucked, so I switched to Pathfinder.

Pathfinder was nice, but I'm not really sure why, and then it sucked because it's not made by WotC, so then I tried OD&D.

OD&D was nice cause I can be more free with the rules, but OD&D sucked cause people said I'm too oldschool and that sucks. So I switched back to 2e.

2e was awesome again cause that's what I started with and it brought back a lot of memories. But then I realized that I still didn't know any of the rules. So I switched to 3.0.

3.0 was cool again cause I remembered how much easier the rules were, but then I realized the Harm spell was still way too broken. So I switched to 3.5 again.

3.5 rocked again cause.....

This is why The Worm Ouroboros is required reading for D&D.

 

[Cyronax]

Well I can't recommend Pathfinder. (I haven't checked it out yet, but if its based off of 3.5 it can't be all bad). That said, the OP said that he liked SWSE and had hoped it'd show up more in 4e. I couldn't agree with that statment more.

So I can deliver the next best thing, Final Fantasy SAGA rules: Final Fantasy Saga: Final Fantasy in the d20 Saga System.

Its not my creation! Its not my creation, but I can't recommend this website enough for people who like Talents and enjoy aspect of 3.5 and 4e.

I would run a campaign using the SWSE corebook (for the Talents, Skills, barebones combat, and general play rules and some equipment) and nearly all things from this website.

My two cents,

C.I.D.

 

[Soraios]

I appreciate all the responses. My intent was not to inflame the Edition Wars so much as to see what others' experience was after playing 4e for awhile.

I wanted to like 4e. I have been in the same gaming group for 9 years. The last thing I wanted to do was quit the group because i can't stand the interaction between this system and our current roster of players.

If you can have fun playing 4e, then you have my sincerest admiration. You will play a game that has excellent support products and the backing of a giant company. I wish I liked it, but I don't.

 

[Thanlis]

I appreciate all the responses. My intent was not to inflame the Edition Wars so much as to see what others' experience was after playing 4e for awhile.

It's been a pretty decent thread as these things go.

IMHO, the key is to remember that the people having fun playing 4e are not idiots and they don't have some covert motive for liking the game. Likewise for Pathfinder. Likewise for OSR games. If something is driving you nuts but isn't upsetting other people, it is probably not a universal problem.

GURPS players, on the other hand, are dangerous freaks.

 

[mmadsen]

This is why The Worm Ouroboros is required reading for D&D.

Well played, Gentlegamer. (Joking aside, I too recommend The Worm Ouroboros, but only if you enjoy archaic language and Goblins that aren't goblins, Demons that aren't demons, etc.)

 

[Votan]

That said, the OP said that he liked SWSE and had hoped it'd show up more in 4e. I couldn't agree with that statment more.

I'd add a third agreement to this statement. I am still figuring out 4E (my current gaming group prefers 3.X; heavily house ruled) but I really enjoyed the elegance of SWSE. It seemed to take the best features of both systems.

In particular, despite some rough edges (low levels with UtF skill focus), the force powers seem to work extremely well and they balanced Jedi and non-Jedi (which was no small feat).

I'm still contemplating starting up a separate 4E game and have read a fair number of the books (I think I own a dozen) so I'm definitely given the new system a chance.

 

[coyote6]

I haven't played any 4E beyond the heroic tier level. I do play WOW and have a level 80 toon. I see some similarities in the combat mechanics and the disenchanting of magic items into components is very WOW like.

It's kind of WoW-like, in that WoW lets you disenchant items into raw materials. But in WoW, you get approximately a zillion different kinds of materials, depending on the item's level and rarity. AFAIK, in 4e, you get residuum from everything. Also, you don't have to grind up an Enchanting skill in D&D, which IMO makes for a massively different (and better; skill grinding largely sucks) feel.

In WOW you can play on several different servers (campaigns) and the play experience will be the same. Different DM's can make playing two different games of D&D vastly different experiences.

Well, the experience on a PvP server might differ from that on a PvE server -- less ganking, anyways. But, yeah, the real person who GMs makes a huge difference. The suckiest system in the world could be a fun game, with the right GM. (And right players, too, of course!)

 

[ExploderWizard]

GURPS players, on the other hand, are dangerous freaks.

I am a GURPS player. This is true.