4E "Core"

[Halivar]

I think the term "core" has lost a lot of importance in 4E because supplemental material is, by and large, a known quantity, with predictable power level. There is little to no 3PP material. Also, no new sub-systems are introduced. The need for a "pure" game is next to nil, except to satisfy a DM's fancy. In 3rd Edition, there were plenty of reasons why a "core only" game was desirable.

I don't think there is really a "core" in 4E. It's more of a "web" of material. The "core", I suppose, is the powers mechanics section of the PHB, the monster-building section of the DMG, and "Page 42". Everything else is material derived from that core, and pretty much equally valid and useful.

 

[billd91]

I think any continuing success of the "everything is core" idea will depend on ongoing support of the DDI tools. As long as players can whip up a PC using any of WotC's published material and have the complete information without having to buy the books, an expansive core will work and be perceived as working. There will not be an issue with players buying sources DMs don't have and so on - assuming the DM has access to the online tools.

But I also think a restrictive GSL will also help the perception that core is everything because it will serve to make 3rd party character-type innovation rare. If 4e had an OGL with lots of publishers and DDI did not incorporate their character options, the issue of core vs non-core would be just as strong - perhaps even moreso since there are now official support tools that have one set of information while another set exists completely separate from it.

 

[SSquirrel]

Are you allowed to play using only the first three books, and if so, what is the term for this type of game? If not, why not?

Boring*?


*I like 4E, don't mind the cross section of classes in the PHB, but there's so much more out there that would be fun at the table too

 

[Hussar]

Originally Posted by BryonD View Post
Are you allowed to play using only the first three books, and if so, what is the term for this type of game? If not, why not?

Of course "not allowed" is a bit misleading too is it not?

You can most certainly play 4e with only the first three books. The same way I could play 1e, 2e, or 3e with only the first three books.

But, it's ONLY 3e that demarks "core rulebook".

To me the reason is pretty obvious. They demark core rulebook because it prevents other people from making the same claim. "YOU NEED THESE BOOKS" is what core rule book says to me.

Other editions don't feel the need to tell players what books they absolutely need in order to play.

 

[AllisterH]

Chromatic Orb.

I just remembered this spell from 2e. It used to show up everywhere on NPC spell list yet for a long time during the 2e days, I didn't know WHERE it had come from.

It was only when they printed the Spell Compendium during the tail end of 2e that I found out it had originally been from the Complete Wizard's Handbook.

 

[Cadfan]

I"m with Hussar. I always thought that "Core" meant "you need these books to play." As opposed to non core books, which were optional.

To a certain extent this wasn't just marketing. You needed the rules in the PHB. You needed certain tables and magic items in the DMG. And you needed at least some monsters.

Fortunately for me you could run 3e entirely out of the SRD, as long as you ignored regular rules for XP gain.

 

[billd91]

Chromatic Orb.

I just remembered this spell from 2e. It used to show up everywhere on NPC spell list yet for a long time during the 2e days, I didn't know WHERE it had come from.

It was only when they printed the Spell Compendium during the tail end of 2e that I found out it had originally been from the Complete Wizard's Handbook.

It's been popular since it first debuted in 1e. I believe I saw it first in a Dragon magazine and then in Unearthed Arcana. Never did understand why it didn't make the 2e PH and we had to wait until the CWH to see it.

 

[aurance]

I never felt compelled to use any more books than I wanted to run a game, regardless of the label.

 

[AllisterH]

It's been popular since it first debuted in 1e. I believe I saw it first in a Dragon magazine and then in Unearthed Arcana. Never did understand why it didn't make the 2e PH and we had to wait until the CWH to see it.

Wasn't it the first example of a broken spell?

A 1st level spell that was Save or Die even to higher level opponents.

What's up with the orb line of spells being so broken?

Still, getting back to the question of core, I don't think many of the kits actually saw use outside of their home product (the shair kit used to show up a lot of course in Al-qadim products but it assumed you had the core Al-Qadim book).

I would say for 2e, Tome of Magic and then Spells & Magic were the most essential books after the initial 3.

But then there's still 1e. When I played 1e, classes from UA were considered "core" and I noticed that anything such as the Wilderness Survival Guide had more traction in 1e circles than say Complete Warrior in 3.5

 

[billd91]

Wasn't it the first example of a broken spell?

A 1st level spell that was Save or Die even to higher level opponents.

What's up with the orb line of spells being so broken?

Still, getting back to the question of core, I don't think many of the kits actually saw use outside of their home product (the shair kit used to show up a lot of course in Al-qadim products but it assumed you had the core Al-Qadim book).

I would say for 2e, Tome of Magic and then Spells & Magic were the most essential books after the initial 3.

But then there's still 1e. When I played 1e, classes from UA were considered "core" and I noticed that anything such as the Wilderness Survival Guide had more traction in 1e circles than say Complete Warrior in 3.5

Back in 1e, you had to roll to hit and there was no touch AC then. You had to hit the full AC of the target. Not so easy with the Magic-User/Illusionist attack table.
It also might have been on just the illusionist spell list then too and that was hard to qualify for.
Plus, it started out with fairly minor secondary effects, moving up to the save vs whatever at higher levels.

So, really, it was good and became the 1e illusionist's primary attack spell (magic missile being unavailable until the illusionist picked up 7th level spells) but requiring a roll to hit AND being subject to a negating save for the secondary effects made it hard to get too much mileage on.