Pathfinder 1E Pathfinder: Is it evidence that new editions don't need to be that different?

[AllisterH]

This may sound weird, but has there ever been a time when D&D has NOT had an aggressive release schedule?

Thanks to Echohawk, we know 4e is actually on the slow side of releases when compared to the entire history of D&D so I'm wondering why nowadays people seem to think WOTC has an aggressive release schedule?

Is it because everything is hardcover and thus makes everything seem more "necessary"?

Is it because it is one big outlay at the end of the month (a $30-40) book whereas before it was $20 a week and thus it didn't seem as bad?

 

[Hussar]

Probably true, but it's also true that there are others who do feel reasonably content with one edition. For me, I'm willing to check out new editions and changes, but really I don't feel like the edition I want isn't here yet. The way you phrased it makes it sound like you're on a quest or something. I'm not. I'd be content to play the same edition the rest of my life if nothing I liked better came along.

But that's the trick though.

As a game designer, why would I cater to you? Excepting the bibliophiles who buy every single book released, the "content to play X edition" gamer is a dwindling market. That market greys, does not see a large influx of new players, and becomes more and more finicky about their purchases.

And, becomes harder and harder to design for as well since the game designer doesn't want to just rerelease the same thing over and over again. It won't sell.

That market - the "Content with what I got" market is a very small niche market. You can't get a lot of companies for that market because it won't support them. And, this is pretty much what we see today. Even before the release of 4e, before 4e was even announced, we were down to what, half a dozen companies making 3e material.

And that's being pretty generous with the definition. Outside of pdf, the landscape was pretty barren. AEG was out. Mongoose was out. Sword and Sorcery Press was out a long time beforehand. I'm sure there are lots of other names as well.

If the "Content with what I got" market was viable, why are there now only a tiny fraction of companies supporting older editions? You'd think if there was money to be made there, someone would be doing it. Well, someone is doing it. Paizo is doing it. But, outside of Paizo, how many 3e companies are there?

Down from a time when publishing a d20 book was like printing money.

 

[ggroy]

Even before the release of 4e, before 4e was even announced, we were down to what, half a dozen companies making 3e material.

And that's being pretty generous with the definition. Outside of pdf, the landscape was pretty barren. AEG was out. Mongoose was out. Sword and Sorcery Press was out a long time beforehand. I'm sure there are lots of other names as well.

Towards the last year or so of 3.5E D&D, Goodman was still pumping out Dungeon Crawl Classics modules, and Paizo was pumping out Pathfinder modules and adventure path books using the 3.5E ruleset.

Offhand I can't think of many other companies doing so, during the period from early 2007 to mid 2008.

 

[yesnomu]

Actually that's the exact *opposite* of the Blizzard model. They announce when a product is demonstrable and to a certain level of polish, but history shows us that it can take literally years for them to get that product out the door - if ever. I don't think there are many people except Blizzard who can actually get away with that.

Yeah, I was thinking that too. The model he's talking about reminds me more of Apple: never announce anything until the day it's released.

 

[James Jacobs]

I, of course, think of 3.5 as a houseruled variant of the Patfhinder RPG.

 

[fanboy2000]

Problem is that the edition I am willing to stick with the rest of my life isn't here yet - and I am sure others feel like that.

But I think every edition is the edition I'm going to marry!

I'm going to get into trouble for that aren't I?

 

[DaveMage]

You could also see it in another way. You already got your wish. That company existed for 8 years, but it gave you material that might least for 24 years. So, why worry about edition treadmills? Where is the harm?

The "harm" of edition switch is that an edition becomes unfinished in certain areas. 3.x never had that FCIII sourcebook, for example. Paizo released "Volume I" of the Dragon Compendium but then it was time to switch editions, so there will not be a Volume II (for 3.5 anyway). Goodman Games had started releasing classic Judges Guild stuff for 3.5, but the edition switch ended up causing some of that to end up unpublished. Necromancer Games was about to do a 3.5 Tegal Manor when 4E came along, destroying that possibility.

Simply Put: Edition Switches suck.

 

[billd91]

The "harm" of edition switch is that an edition becomes unfinished in certain areas. 3.x never had that FCIII sourcebook, for example. Paizo released "Volume I" of the Dragon Compendium but then it was time to switch editions, so there will not be a Volume II (for 3.5 anyway). Goodman Games had started releasing classic Judges Guild stuff for 3.5, but the edition switch ended up causing some of that to end up unpublished. Necromancer Games was about to do a 3.5 Tegal Manor when 4E came along, destroying that possibility.

Simply Put: Edition Switches suck.

If the edition switch had been of the magnitude of a Champions or Call of Cthulhu edition change, the conversion would have been fairly simple and the series of compendiums or Judges Guild conversions could have continued.

So, it's not all kinds of edition changes.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

The "harm" of edition switch is that an edition becomes unfinished in certain areas. 3.x never had that FCIII sourcebook, for example. Paizo released "Volume I" of the Dragon Compendium but then it was time to switch editions, so there will not be a Volume II (for 3.5 anyway). Goodman Games had started releasing classic Judges Guild stuff for 3.5, but the edition switch ended up causing some of that to end up unpublished. Necromancer Games was about to do a 3.5 Tegal Manor when 4E came along, destroying that possibility.

Simply Put: Edition Switches suck.

My point is: With a "less aggressive" release schedule, there would be no material for a Dragon Compendium II. Or if there would be, it would be on in 16 years, and all the other material that was produced for 3E would have been stretched to that part.

 

[Dice4Hire]

I would have to agree that WOTC/TSR has kept up very aggressive release schedules for the last couple of decades, and sometimes it seemed like it was a treadmill hat you had to either keep up with or be out in the cold. Now with DDI, there is a new element to that, with the subscription providing a lot of services for a fixed monthly cost, there is more incentive to keep the products coming, to inflate the perceived 'value' of the subscription.

As for me, I have bought quite a few books of each edition since 2E, and do not regret my purchases, but recently I am getting tired of the treadmill, and am seriously condidsering abandoning it.