Alternate Magic Systems for 3.5?

[Kid Charlemagne]

What sorts of alternate magic systems are there out there for 3.5?

I'm looking for something to change up my standard D&D setup, and I'd like to see what systems people have created before going to the effort of trying to reinvent the wheel myself... My ideal system would be a little like 4E in that it would be non-Vancian, with some powers that might be at will, and some that are more powerful but limited in uses per day. My preferences also run to the lower magic side of things.

I'm thinking a little in terms of the old "Paths of Power" concept - you learn a "Path" which opens up a certain kind of power. For example, if you concentrated on Fire, you might get something like scorching ray early on, and graduate to things like fireball or wall of fire as you go up in levels. Anything out there like that?

 

[Storm Raven]

I'm thinking a little in terms of the old "Paths of Power" concept - you learn a "Path" which opens up a certain kind of power. For example, if you concentrated on Fire, you might get something like scorching ray early on, and graduate to things like fireball or wall of fire as you go up in levels. Anything out there like that?

There was something vaguely similar to this in Mongoose's Shaman's - Call of the Wild. It was based upon getting spirit guides to give you access to particular domains, from which you could then cast spells.

 

[noffham]

There are tons of different magic systems out there. Unearthed Arcana has both spell points and recharge-time systems.

The Sovereign Stone setting used a casting threshold system where you rolled to build-up the power to cast the spell.

Arcana Evolved is vancian with more flexibility to heighten/Diminish spells.

EN pub's Elements of Magic (and EOM:Mythic Earth) are two more takes on the subject (and buying them helps support the site).

Green Ronin's Black Company and Thieves World settings have their own spellbuilding/casting system. Their True Sorcery is another.

Of course, the XPH psionics make a fine spell system with just a little (if any) re-skinning.

That's just what comes off the top of my head.

 

[Voadam]

Monte Cook's Book of Experimental Might. They give spellcasters fewer Vancian daily spells but some at wills.

Pathfinder. Cantrips are at will while higher level spells are vancian.

Path features you'd have to check something out like GURPS Magic or many White Wolf Systems. Monte Cook's World of Darkness comes to mind as might the d20 Trinity books.

Lower magic and path style you might want something like Green Ronin's Psychic Handbook, Black Company, etc. which I undestand use a feat path magic system.

Many alt d20 systems use a skill roll, other fatigue systems, or simply less powerful vancian style casters.

ENPublishing's Fantastic Science has a technological savant class who has warlock style at will technomagic style powers.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

I was going to mention ELements of Magic as I got to play it in a once off. It is pretty neat.

I would also mention Spell Law for Role Master. 20 years or so since i last looked at it but it was a list based system and I remember liking it at the time.

 

[Alzrius]

Advanced d20 Magic, by Guardians of Order, is a sourcebook on spellcasting for the BESM d20 RPG. It's pretty interesting, and I really wish it could be more tightly integrated into "normal" 3.5, since it's rather flexible and quite cinematic.

EDIT: Since you mentioned "Paths of Power" I assume you're already familiar with the Paths of Power free sourcebook by Distant Horizons Games, and its sequel?

 

[Azgulor]

There are tons of different magic systems out there. Unearthed Arcana has both spell points and recharge-time systems.

The Sovereign Stone setting used a casting threshold system where you rolled to build-up the power to cast the spell.

Arcana Evolved is vancian with more flexibility to heighten/Diminish spells.

EN pub's Elements of Magic (and EOM:Mythic Earth) are two more takes on the subject (and buying them helps support the site).

Green Ronin's Black Company and Thieves World settings have their own spellbuilding/casting system. Their True Sorcery is another.

Of course, the XPH psionics make a fine spell system with just a little (if any) re-skinning.

That's just what comes off the top of my head.

These are probably the most popular ones out there. My opinions from my kick-the-tires sessions:

Sovereign Stone
Pros: nice system, non-Vancian, spell creation rules. Spell roll to cast.
Cons: Little or no class differentiation for spellcasters. You can cast or you can't. (Going from memory here and it's been awhile but mechanically I don't recall significant differences.)

Elements of Magic
Pros: Very customizable, non-Vancian, easy to build magical "traditions" that focus on particular paths/forms of spells
Cons: Math-heavy. Build spells in advance or prepare for play to come to halt. Effectively, you are recreating the wheel in some cases in order to port your d20 spells to EoM.

True Sorcery
Pros: Customizable, including appendices for applying it to other d20/OGL games (e.g. applying True Sorcery to Thieves' World classes or Iron Heroes), non-Vancian, spell roll vs. drain. Versatile like EoM, but more codified for easier creation at the game table. We saw less of a slowdown than EoM.
Cons: Defining magical traditions is easy. However, if using D&D arcane/divine divide, you're probably going to experience a lot of overlap. Slowdown during play if spells aren't built in advance.

Arcana Evolved
Pros: Vancian-familiarity offset by increased flexibility (everyone casts like a Sorceror -- spell slots really just represent energy you have to cast). Unique spell classifications (simple, complex, exotic) & templates allows for custom paths/traditions. Spellcaster class differentiation. Spell Treasury does AE treatment of most SRD spells.
Cons: AE spells similar but not same as D&D spells. Vancian-modification effectively eliminates difference between Wizard & Sorceror. (You'd want to use AE's Magister anyway.)

Thieves' World
Pros: Non-vancian. Spell roll to cast. Drain (non-lethal damage) as caster limitation. Uses standard D20 spells. Supports arcane/divine divide. Differentiates between ritual and standard casting techniques (spells are the same but if cast as rituals have longer durations -- mages are better at spells; priests are better at rituals; witches are average at both)
Cons: Witch kills druid and takes his spell list.

My personal ranking:
#5. Elements of Magic - It's neat, I love the magical tradition-building component of it. Ultimately, it slowed down the game and was too much work. I couldnt' justify building spells when I had multiple sourcebooks with ready made spells on the shelf.

#4. Sovereign Stone - An inspiration for the TW system. However, the unique spells either had to be applied to classes or I had to convert D&D spells into the SS system. The spell-creation rules made it fairly easy to do, however. I just didn't want to spend the time.

#3. True Sorcery - Great system, very evocative of what you see in fantasy fiction. Would be in the top 2 if my players opted more for spellcasters than warriors.

#2. Thieves' World - Hit every objective I had. Can use standard spells while eliminating vancian spell slots. This is the system I use most frequently. Sexy, does what I need it to do, and is also the path of least resistance. So why isn't it #1...

#1. Arcana Evolved - More than any other D20 game, this one made me want to play a spellcaster. Not just any spellcaster (though the magister is my favorite) but ALL of the spellcasters. The most innovative treatment of the D&D style magic I've seen. Spell templates, Simple-Complex-Exotic spell divisions, Vancian spell slots I can stomach, laden spells, heightened spells, diminished spells. The Spell Treasury doing an AE treatment of the SRD spells was just a giant-sized cherry on top.

 

[darjr]

I'm not familiar with M&M but maybe you could use that and the 'fantasy' supplement to use 'powers' as magic. Kinda like you could do with GURPS Powers and Champions.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Just what I was about to suggest.

 

[Aus_Snow]

I'm not familiar with M&M but maybe you could use that and the 'fantasy' supplement to use 'powers' as magic. Kinda like you could do with GURPS Powers and Champions.

You could certainly do that, and hey, I loves me some M&M. However, it might be a bit easier (if 'a bit' less flexible) to adapt True20's powers subsystem, as that game's architecture is not quite so far removed from 3e's. *shrug* Just a thought.

Another thing you might want to have a look at is Legends of Sorcery, from RPGObjects. It's non-'pseudo-Vancian', skill-based, and provides a bunch of ready made low magic classes. The standard PHB classes are um, classified as low magic, medium magic or high magic, with Base Magic Bonus (IIRC) in line with that. Of course, a few feats to go with. Quite a neat solution, though it doesn't do anything like that 'Paths of Power' kinda thing.

If you want a whole bunch of themed spell lists, the Eldritch Weaver from the Advanced Player's Manual (by Green Ronin) has them. Actually, that's what the class does, pretty much. Casts from specific 'threads', iow. Hm, and gets minor and major thread powers, but those are few and far between, and in general not particularly impactful. But nice anyway. Oh, and check this site for some excellent supplementary material, if you do like the sound of the Eldritch Weaver.

Priest of the Celestial Spheres, from the Classes of Legend series (by Lion's Den Press) is a kind of themed Cleric (somewhat reminiscent of the 2e Priest, I believe), if that helps.

I dunno, you could probably combine a non-'pseudo-Vancian' spellcasting mechanic of choice with some alternate classes / an alternate class structure (e.g., those above) - that might work. . .