Touch Attacks and Critical Hits

[Hrothgar Rannúlfr]

Just a question, the SRD says:

" Touch attacks come in two types: melee touch attacks and ranged touch attacks. You can score critical hits with either type of attack."​

Does anyone know the logic behind this? To me, it seems illogical that an attack that requires little precision to hit could cause what would otherwise be classed a precision damage.

If you can, please help me understand why touch attacks should be able to score critical hits.

Thank you!

 

[Shin Okada]

To me, it seems illogical that an attack that requires little precision to hit could cause what would otherwise be classed a precision damage.

Touch attack is NOT an attack that requires little precision. It ignores armor/shield/natural armor bonuses as it is irrelevant if opponent's surface is hard or not. Not because the attack does not need to be precise.

 

[Starbuck_II]

Just a question, the SRD says:

" Touch attacks come in two types: melee touch attacks and ranged touch attacks. You can score critical hits with either type of attack."​

Does anyone know the logic behind this? To me, it seems illogical that an attack that requires little precision to hit could cause what would otherwise be classed a precision damage.

If you can, please help me understand why touch attacks should be able to score critical hits.

Thank you!

Being able to do a Crit isn't a Precision damage. Precision (game terms) is sneak attack. You can Crit a Undead (Flaming Burst for example).
Crits are dealing extra damage by luck.

Why Touch attacks can: because all attacks with an attack roll can roll a Crit. D&D is based on that idea.
Example, Ray of Frost causes extra freezing when it crits (1d3 + 1d3).

 

[Hrothgar Rannúlfr]

Touch attack is NOT an attack that requires little precision. It ignores armor/shield/natural armor bonuses as it is irrelevant if opponent's surface is hard or not. Not because the attack does not need to be precise.

Hmmm... Irrelevant whether or not the opponent's surface is hard or not... Hmmm...

Interesting... So, touch attacks are still targeting vitals, but touch attacks don't care about barriers... Interesting...

 

[Hrothgar Rannúlfr]

Being able to do a Crit isn't a Precision damage.

Hmmm... Weird... Do you know where it references this in the SRD or Core 3.5 books? I'm really curious. Seems counter-intuitive, to me.

Precision (game terms) is sneak attack.

But, Precision isn't ONLY Sneak Attack. There are a lot of other forms of Precision Damage. Sneak Attack is only one form.

You can Crit a Undead (Flaming Burst for example).

Undead are immune to critical hits, so Flaming Burst doesn't work against them (as far as I can tell) since it requires a critical hit to activate.

Crits are dealing extra damage by luck.

I agree, but skill is also involved. Otherwise feats like Improved Critical wouldn't exist.

Why Touch attacks can: because all attacks with an attack roll can roll a Crit. D&D is based on that idea.
Example, Ray of Frost causes extra freezing when it crits (1d3 + 1d3).

I disagree with the idea that D&D is based on the idea that all attacks with an attack roll can score a Critical Hit. I believe the idea of Critical Hits evolved a while after the game was created. I'm not sure how long afterward it was added to the game, but I don't think it was part of the core rules of the game until 3rd Edition. But, I could be wrong.

 

[Hrothgar Rannúlfr]

Thank you, Shin Okada. I think you've answered my question!

 

[billd91]

I agree, but skill is also involved. Otherwise feats like Improved Critical wouldn't exist.

Some skill is involved in that a skilled character can improve his chances of getting lucky. But getting a critical hit is still governed by luck while precision damage is, in essence, totally under the character's power. That's why precision damage is not allowed for targets with full concealment - can't see enough to target the high-damage areas intentionally - but critical hits are.

 

[Hrothgar Rannúlfr]

Some skill is involved in that a skilled character can improve his chances of getting lucky. But getting a critical hit is still governed by luck while precision damage is, in essence, totally under the character's power. That's why precision damage is not allowed for targets with full concealment - can't see enough to target the high-damage areas intentionally - but critical hits are.

Good point, billd91. That helps to distinguish the difference, for me.

 

[Theroc]

Undead are immune to critical hits, so Flaming Burst doesn't work against them (as far as I can tell) since it requires a critical hit to activate.

Magic Weapons :: d20srd.org

Magic Weapons and Critical Hits

Some weapon qualities and some specific weapons have an extra effect on a critical hit. This special effect functions against creatures not subject to critical hits, such as undead, elementals, and constructs. When fighting against such creatures, roll for critical hits as you would against humanoids or any other creature subject to critical hits. On a successful critical roll, apply the special effect, but do not multiply the weapon’s regular damage.

 

[irdeggman]

Hmmm... Weird... Do you know where it references this in the SRD or Core 3.5 books? I'm really curious. Seems counter-intuitive, to me.
But, Precision isn't ONLY Sneak Attack. There are a lot of other forms of Precision Damage. Sneak Attack is only one form.

There is no such thing as a precision attack there is only precision damage.

Rules Compendium pg 42 clarifies (or specifies) what is precision damage.

"A number of abilities in the game allow a creature to deal extra damage by striking a vital area."

RC pg 40 talks about critical hits

"A critical hit is an attack that deals more damage, indicating a hit to a vital area."

and while the text makes them seem like they are the same the restrictions for the 2 are different.

Critical hits only require that the opponent not be immune to it (like undead and constructs) precision damage requires the ability to focus on the vital area - hence the being able to see and reach it, being close (for a ranged attack), etc.

Critical hits involve a certain amount of "luck" and function along the same paths as a nat 20 always hits and a nat 1 always misses on attack rolls, even if you couldn't hit the creature or miss the creature with any given die roll.