Glade Riven
Adventurer
Fine, fine - you want to skip over a good roleplaying opertunity, that's your business.
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NOW LIVE! Into the Woods--new character species, eerie monsters, and haunting villains to populate the woodlands of your D&D games.
Pathfinder 1E Pathfinderize the Warforged
- Thread starter JacktheRabbit
- Start date
What.
Sylrae
First Post
I think he's saying that most magic items should not be fit to the user.
I was under the impression that only the more powerful magic items fit themselves to the user.
That's the way I understood "how things work"; but I always just pretend the gear that players buy fits everyone of that size category, and magic irems fit anyone.
I will say i find it a bit unsatisfying to have the magic boots grow to fit a large size character.
I was under the impression that only the more powerful magic items fit themselves to the user.
That's the way I understood "how things work"; but I always just pretend the gear that players buy fits everyone of that size category, and magic irems fit anyone.
I will say i find it a bit unsatisfying to have the magic boots grow to fit a large size character.
Yeah, I mean, I get that, but it's his way of acting like I'm missing some great roleplaying opportunity and that I'm doing something wrong by following the rules that makes me "What."
Jeff Wilder
First Post
Definitely.
Glade Riven
Adventurer
Whoah, hey, wasn't meaning to insinuate too much. Just say'n it's a role playing opportunity. I know one of the Forgies I've played would have ran into problems trying to use equipment that wasn't a component, but that was due to a bit of homebrew interferance. It is just a flavor thing between you and your DM (or player, if you're the DM).
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Not to stir up old posts, but...
Is anyone else bothered a bit by the idea of a robot fighting vampires? It seems to me like the two groups would never have a reason to interact.
I'm a fan of either removing the -2 Wis or adding a +2 to Str; or alternately, removing the -2 to Wis and adding a +2 to Int. In both cases, you end up with a slightly better-than-average stat modification, which brings the Warforged up to par with the rest of Pathfinder.
For racial abilities, I would drop the Fortification (for reasons previously stated), add in a "power-down" or "reboot" period rather like a wizard's need for eight hours of rest.
And while we're on the subject of robot-like qualities, I would also give warforged a -2 penalty on saving throws against electricity-based effects.
I think that covers everything nicely. The immunities and resistances that the warforged gets aren't going anywhere; if you take any of them away, you're creating something that doesn't operate under its usual parameters. There will certainly be people in the campaign who will take umbrage to the fact that the warforged can walk through the valley of death and come out relatively unscathed; there will also be people who take so much umbrage that they decide to "put the robot down".
Remember that there are also roleplaying implications, in a standard setting, for being a character made entirely out of wood and metal. Not all of those implications are positive; in fact, most of them will work against you.
Is anyone else bothered a bit by the idea of a robot fighting vampires? It seems to me like the two groups would never have a reason to interact.
I'm a fan of either removing the -2 Wis or adding a +2 to Str; or alternately, removing the -2 to Wis and adding a +2 to Int. In both cases, you end up with a slightly better-than-average stat modification, which brings the Warforged up to par with the rest of Pathfinder.
For racial abilities, I would drop the Fortification (for reasons previously stated), add in a "power-down" or "reboot" period rather like a wizard's need for eight hours of rest.
And while we're on the subject of robot-like qualities, I would also give warforged a -2 penalty on saving throws against electricity-based effects.
I think that covers everything nicely. The immunities and resistances that the warforged gets aren't going anywhere; if you take any of them away, you're creating something that doesn't operate under its usual parameters. There will certainly be people in the campaign who will take umbrage to the fact that the warforged can walk through the valley of death and come out relatively unscathed; there will also be people who take so much umbrage that they decide to "put the robot down".
Remember that there are also roleplaying implications, in a standard setting, for being a character made entirely out of wood and metal. Not all of those implications are positive; in fact, most of them will work against you.
Were I running PF with Warforged, I'd either leave them unchanged or alter them along the lines of this version I cooked up for my homebrew (posted several times here on ENWorld):
As such, I added darkvision and certain dwarven trained/cultural abilities, but subtracted their sleeplessness, immunities to things that affect normal dwarven minds and such. Poisons would only affect them on a crit- the dwarf brain inside is far more protected and self contained than in a natural body. And so forth.
IOW, I'd only change them to tailor them to a particular campaign, and as such, they might differ from PF campaign to PF campaign.
As such, I added darkvision and certain dwarven trained/cultural abilities, but subtracted their sleeplessness, immunities to things that affect normal dwarven minds and such. Poisons would only affect them on a crit- the dwarf brain inside is far more protected and self contained than in a natural body. And so forth.
IOW, I'd only change them to tailor them to a particular campaign, and as such, they might differ from PF campaign to PF campaign.
Interesting ideas...
Personally, I like the idea of the Warforged's alien mind being more analytical, so a +2 Int feels good (it's also quirky, since they have automatic spell failure chance).
Here's how I'd do a Pathfinder Warforged:
WARFORGED
+2 Constitution, +2 Intelligence, -2 Charisma: Warforged are hardy and have an anlytical method of thinking, however this method of thinking, coupled with the fact that they never experienced growth and learning as a child into an adult, creates a detached sense of individuality.
Medium: Warforged are medium creatures and have no bonuses or penalties from size.
Normal Speed: Warforged have a base speed of 30 feet.
Living Construct: A warforged has the humanoid (living construct) type. They are primarily humanoid, but their creation from non-living stone and wood instills them with a number of construct qualities, granting them the following bonuses:
- A warforged does not need to breathe, eat or sleep. As such, a warforged is immune to sleep effects, or effects that cause fatigue or exhaustion, as well as those that cause nausea or sickened conditions. A warforged still requires 8 hours of rest to prepare spells.
- Since a warforged has no blood, they are immune to bleed, poison and disease.
- A warforged's physiology does not allow healing naturally, and since they are only partially made of once living wood, they are only partially affected by normal curative magic (reduced by 50%). This same physiology also means they automatically stabilize when below 0 hitpoints, and do not risk further damage when performing strenuous activity while staggered at 0 hitpoints.
- Due to the wood, stone and metals used to create it's body, a warforged is always treated as wearing metal, stone and wood armor for purposes of spells that affect such materials. Also, a warforged is treated as a ferrous creature for purposes of spells and abilities such as rusting grasp or the touch of a rust monster's antennae. However, this also means they are treated as constructs for purposes of spells such as mending or make whole.
- A warforged can be repaired with the Knowledge (engineering) skill. This is similar to the long-term care check from the Heal skill (DC 15), repairing 2 hitpoints from 8 hours of repair, or 4 hitpoints for a full day of extended repairing.
In addition, repairing severe damage can be done with a Knowledge (engineering) check, exactly as the treat deadly wound Heal check (DC 20), granting 1 hitpoints per level of the warforged, and if exceeding the DC by 5, adding the bonus from Intelligence. This must be done within 24 hours of the damage, and only once per day. They require the use of Artisan's Tools to perform.
Composite Plating: The plating used to build a warforged provides a +2 armor bonus to AC, however due to being somewhat bulky, also causes a 10% spell failure chance. This is treated as light armor for purposes of class abilities that can ignore spell failure chance. This plating can be enchanted as a normal suit of armor, although the warforged needs to be present for the entire process.
The plating takes up the armor or robe slot. Armor can be "fitted" to be worn around and over the plating; such armor is treated as "non-humanoid" for purposes of cost and weight. Only the highest armor bonus is applied (they do not stack).
Fitted armor or other magical equipment, such as robes, can be normally used overtop the plating, however any enhancements on the plating is suppressed.
Natural Attack: A warforged has a natural attack in the form of a slam that deals 1d4 points of damage.
Languages: Common. A warforged with a high intelligence may choose one additional language based on the region or people from where he was created.
___________________________
So overall, I think it normalizes the Warforged a bit, bringing it more in line with the philosophies of Pathfinder.
I took away the energy drain protection (no idea why it had that but not immunity to ability score damage), and Fortification (for obvious reasons).
I also took away the construct type, since the Warforged seems to have more in common with being humanoid than being a construct.
It made for a shorter list of additive things, than a longer list of removed things while still needing to mention the additive things.
It also means they are affected by spells like Hold Person.
If you leave out the repair line of spells, their problem with healing is more in line with balancing their immunities. There's still the mending and make whole spells for somewhat limited magical (but full, and arcane) healing, and the Knowledge (engineering) skill for longterm and "deadly wound" repair.
Fighters being a common "soldier" choice for Warforged having Knowledge (engineering) is suddenly incredibly fitting.
The plating working with armor allows for a more seamless fit into standard games without needing components and a whole slough of warforged exception stuff.
The increased cost and non-automatic fit for found magic armor gives a decent penalty for automatic starting armor.
The lack of Weapon Familiarity is offset by automatic natural attack.
Since this Warforged will have, on average, a +1 Int bonus, I felt that giving them the option of an extra language (appropriate to where they were "born") was fitting.
I think this version of the race will work okay alongside the other races. They will feel the healing issue more keenly, but the adding of skill check to repair, and keeping some of the really good immunities (bleed, poison and sleep/fatigue effects) make it a balanced thing I feel.
I think it still captures the whole "unstoppable army" feel that warforged are supposed to have (automatic armor and attack, no need to sleep, etc), but keeps things within reason for a normal Pathfinder PC race.
Personally, I like the idea of the Warforged's alien mind being more analytical, so a +2 Int feels good (it's also quirky, since they have automatic spell failure chance).
Here's how I'd do a Pathfinder Warforged:
WARFORGED
+2 Constitution, +2 Intelligence, -2 Charisma: Warforged are hardy and have an anlytical method of thinking, however this method of thinking, coupled with the fact that they never experienced growth and learning as a child into an adult, creates a detached sense of individuality.
Medium: Warforged are medium creatures and have no bonuses or penalties from size.
Normal Speed: Warforged have a base speed of 30 feet.
Living Construct: A warforged has the humanoid (living construct) type. They are primarily humanoid, but their creation from non-living stone and wood instills them with a number of construct qualities, granting them the following bonuses:
- A warforged does not need to breathe, eat or sleep. As such, a warforged is immune to sleep effects, or effects that cause fatigue or exhaustion, as well as those that cause nausea or sickened conditions. A warforged still requires 8 hours of rest to prepare spells.
- Since a warforged has no blood, they are immune to bleed, poison and disease.
- A warforged's physiology does not allow healing naturally, and since they are only partially made of once living wood, they are only partially affected by normal curative magic (reduced by 50%). This same physiology also means they automatically stabilize when below 0 hitpoints, and do not risk further damage when performing strenuous activity while staggered at 0 hitpoints.
- Due to the wood, stone and metals used to create it's body, a warforged is always treated as wearing metal, stone and wood armor for purposes of spells that affect such materials. Also, a warforged is treated as a ferrous creature for purposes of spells and abilities such as rusting grasp or the touch of a rust monster's antennae. However, this also means they are treated as constructs for purposes of spells such as mending or make whole.
- A warforged can be repaired with the Knowledge (engineering) skill. This is similar to the long-term care check from the Heal skill (DC 15), repairing 2 hitpoints from 8 hours of repair, or 4 hitpoints for a full day of extended repairing.
In addition, repairing severe damage can be done with a Knowledge (engineering) check, exactly as the treat deadly wound Heal check (DC 20), granting 1 hitpoints per level of the warforged, and if exceeding the DC by 5, adding the bonus from Intelligence. This must be done within 24 hours of the damage, and only once per day. They require the use of Artisan's Tools to perform.
Composite Plating: The plating used to build a warforged provides a +2 armor bonus to AC, however due to being somewhat bulky, also causes a 10% spell failure chance. This is treated as light armor for purposes of class abilities that can ignore spell failure chance. This plating can be enchanted as a normal suit of armor, although the warforged needs to be present for the entire process.
The plating takes up the armor or robe slot. Armor can be "fitted" to be worn around and over the plating; such armor is treated as "non-humanoid" for purposes of cost and weight. Only the highest armor bonus is applied (they do not stack).
Fitted armor or other magical equipment, such as robes, can be normally used overtop the plating, however any enhancements on the plating is suppressed.
Natural Attack: A warforged has a natural attack in the form of a slam that deals 1d4 points of damage.
Languages: Common. A warforged with a high intelligence may choose one additional language based on the region or people from where he was created.
___________________________
So overall, I think it normalizes the Warforged a bit, bringing it more in line with the philosophies of Pathfinder.
I took away the energy drain protection (no idea why it had that but not immunity to ability score damage), and Fortification (for obvious reasons).
I also took away the construct type, since the Warforged seems to have more in common with being humanoid than being a construct.
It made for a shorter list of additive things, than a longer list of removed things while still needing to mention the additive things.
It also means they are affected by spells like Hold Person.
If you leave out the repair line of spells, their problem with healing is more in line with balancing their immunities. There's still the mending and make whole spells for somewhat limited magical (but full, and arcane) healing, and the Knowledge (engineering) skill for longterm and "deadly wound" repair.
Fighters being a common "soldier" choice for Warforged having Knowledge (engineering) is suddenly incredibly fitting.
The plating working with armor allows for a more seamless fit into standard games without needing components and a whole slough of warforged exception stuff.
The increased cost and non-automatic fit for found magic armor gives a decent penalty for automatic starting armor.
The lack of Weapon Familiarity is offset by automatic natural attack.
Since this Warforged will have, on average, a +1 Int bonus, I felt that giving them the option of an extra language (appropriate to where they were "born") was fitting.
I think this version of the race will work okay alongside the other races. They will feel the healing issue more keenly, but the adding of skill check to repair, and keeping some of the really good immunities (bleed, poison and sleep/fatigue effects) make it a balanced thing I feel.
I think it still captures the whole "unstoppable army" feel that warforged are supposed to have (automatic armor and attack, no need to sleep, etc), but keeps things within reason for a normal Pathfinder PC race.
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Re: Warforged in PRPG
I have tried creating a version of the Warforged for the PRPG.
Here it is:
Living Construct (Ex.): Warforged characters are not of the Humanoid type. They are of the Construct type and have the Living Construct subtype. Living Constructs gain none of the features of normal constructs unless specified so and have a Constitution score.
Construct Resiliency: Warforged characters gain a +4 bonus on saves against poison, paralysis, disease, nausea, fatigue and exhaustion, effects that cause the sickened condition and energy drain.
Construct Constitution: Warforged do not need to eat, sleep or breathe. They are immune to sleep spells and effects. Warforged can still benefit from consumable spells and items such as a Heroes’ Feast spell or a potion. Although warforged do not need to breathe, poison or some other similar effect in the air affects them.
Construct Body: Warforged do not heal lethal damage naturally, but can be repaired by themselves or others. This requires a Craft (Armor, Weapons or Blacksmithing) check and requires 4 hours of work. As long as the total check result surpasses 10 the warforged heals that many hit points. The one making the repairs on the warforged character’s body can take 10 on this check but the total time he has to spend becomes 6 hours. He can also take 20 but the total time he has to spend becomes 8 hours.
Metal and Wood: Warforged bodies include large quantities of wood and iron and spells and effects affect them as if they were both metal and wood and as if they were wearing metallic armor. Spells and effects that affect either wood or metal but work only on objects do not affect warforged. Warforged characters take 2d6 points of damage from rust effects.
Warforged Reserves: Warforged characters at 0 hit points do not take additional damage from taking action. Warforged automatically succeed on all stabilize checks when at negative hit points. A warforged character that has been killed can be raised or resurrected.
Warforged Racial Adjustments: +2 Strength, +2 Constitution, -2 Wisdom, -2 Charisma.
Size: Medium (no special size bonuses or penalties)
Light Fortification (Ex.): Warforged characters have a 25% chance to negate critical hits and sneak attacks dealt upon them and damage is instead rolled normally. This ability does not stack with others of the same kind including the Light Fortification, Moderate Fortification and Heavy Fortification armor special abilities.
Natural Weapon: Warforged characters possess a natural weapon in the form of a slam attack that deals 1d4 points of damage.
Battlefield Craftsmen: Warforged characters gain a +2 bonus on Craft skill checks made to repair themselves or other warforged.
Construct Toughness: Warforged characters gain Toughness as a bonus
feat.
Base Land Speed: 30 Ft.
Automatic Languages: Common.
Bonus Languages: Any (except secret languages such as Druidic, etc.)
I have tried creating a version of the Warforged for the PRPG.
Here it is:
Living Construct (Ex.): Warforged characters are not of the Humanoid type. They are of the Construct type and have the Living Construct subtype. Living Constructs gain none of the features of normal constructs unless specified so and have a Constitution score.
Construct Resiliency: Warforged characters gain a +4 bonus on saves against poison, paralysis, disease, nausea, fatigue and exhaustion, effects that cause the sickened condition and energy drain.
Construct Constitution: Warforged do not need to eat, sleep or breathe. They are immune to sleep spells and effects. Warforged can still benefit from consumable spells and items such as a Heroes’ Feast spell or a potion. Although warforged do not need to breathe, poison or some other similar effect in the air affects them.
Construct Body: Warforged do not heal lethal damage naturally, but can be repaired by themselves or others. This requires a Craft (Armor, Weapons or Blacksmithing) check and requires 4 hours of work. As long as the total check result surpasses 10 the warforged heals that many hit points. The one making the repairs on the warforged character’s body can take 10 on this check but the total time he has to spend becomes 6 hours. He can also take 20 but the total time he has to spend becomes 8 hours.
Metal and Wood: Warforged bodies include large quantities of wood and iron and spells and effects affect them as if they were both metal and wood and as if they were wearing metallic armor. Spells and effects that affect either wood or metal but work only on objects do not affect warforged. Warforged characters take 2d6 points of damage from rust effects.
Warforged Reserves: Warforged characters at 0 hit points do not take additional damage from taking action. Warforged automatically succeed on all stabilize checks when at negative hit points. A warforged character that has been killed can be raised or resurrected.
Warforged Racial Adjustments: +2 Strength, +2 Constitution, -2 Wisdom, -2 Charisma.
Size: Medium (no special size bonuses or penalties)
Light Fortification (Ex.): Warforged characters have a 25% chance to negate critical hits and sneak attacks dealt upon them and damage is instead rolled normally. This ability does not stack with others of the same kind including the Light Fortification, Moderate Fortification and Heavy Fortification armor special abilities.
Natural Weapon: Warforged characters possess a natural weapon in the form of a slam attack that deals 1d4 points of damage.
Battlefield Craftsmen: Warforged characters gain a +2 bonus on Craft skill checks made to repair themselves or other warforged.
Construct Toughness: Warforged characters gain Toughness as a bonus
feat.
Base Land Speed: 30 Ft.
Automatic Languages: Common.
Bonus Languages: Any (except secret languages such as Druidic, etc.)
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