Stop me if you've heard this one before: I'm not liking 4E.
My group switched over a couple summers ago when the newest edition came out...and it first it was fun.
But after a while the game started to wear on me more and more to the point where I am starting to actively disdain it.
My problems with 4E:
Everyone raves about how dynamic and fun 4E combat is, but to me it's been getting increasingly boring and even LESS dynamic than in previous editions.
I don't mind the minis heavy aspect, as my group has been using minis since way back in the AD&D 2nd Edition days.
What I DO mind is the ceaseless HP grind, metagaming, and all around lack of drama.
It used to be that combat in D&D was dangerous and exciting...fights were short and deadly, our players were using their imaginations and it just seemed like the stakes were much higher when there was the possibility that one could die at any time.
Now it just seems that the game has discarded it's swords and spells for wiffle ball bats and water balloons. Yeah...it sucked when your character got hit with a save-or-die effect and had to sit the game for a while to await a raise dead spell or roll up a new character...but that was part of the game and added to the drama of combat encounters.
Furthermore, it seems that instead of describing characters actions in a cool narrative faction, combat has become:
"I shift 1 sq. and use Spinning sweep to knock the Orc Raider prone, then I spend an action point to use rain of blows with combat advantage...at this time I will also activate my Half-Orc racial power to do an additional 1d10 damage to the attack...also he is now marked"
Maybe not all groups are like this, but in mine combat has become a disjointed litany of metagame terms to the point where fights sound like people just reciting rules on each of their turns. It feels distinctly like interacting with a game rather than interacting with a living world.
Which brings me to my next problem...healing surges. Hit points were always highly abstracted...and I tried to reconcile the idea of second winds and other nonmagical healing...but I just can't see how a few encouraging words from a Warlord with no mystical power behind them causes the Wizard to shrug off what WAS a devastating axe blow.
Classes have become much more balanced, true. And at first I thought it was cool that my Fighter could operate on par with other members of the group...but I can't help but feel like a lot of classes lost their sense of originality in the process of all this balancing, to the point wher eit feels like there are really just minor variations on the same 4 classes (Defender, Controller, Striker, Leader) with some minor little gimmick anymore.
I wouldn't say that martial characters are like spellcasters per se...but to me there is little difference between a martial power that blinds enemies in a burst 1, and an arcane power that has the same effect. It seems like the only real difference is the implement used and a few minor keywords with no specific effect.
What's more, everything just feels so rigid and modular. How many core classes are there now? Like 23? Do we really need that many? At this point it really just feels like pointless grid filling.
Also, skill challenges. While I appreciate that WotC tried to codify and define a way to award xp for out of combat challenges...but it seems like the structure of social challenges encourages the same kind of metagame rules recitation as combat. We used to actually roleplay our way through these things, but now we just roll our D20's until the skill challenge is over.
Monsters in 4E seem like lifeless blocks of stats now...and they lack any real threat, instead imposing minor annoyances rather than any sort of palpable danger.
And don't even get me started on WotC's GSL and PDF site shenanigans...but that's a whole separate thread.
It just seems to me that 4E is a rigid and compartmentalized little box...and while it's a well constructed little box, it just lacks the sort of inspiration and flavor that I'm looking for in a game. It used to be that I would hang out with my friends and have a great time gaming, but now while I still love my friends, the gaming aspect has become a necessary exercise in tedium. They however, aren't really interested in playing anything else, even when I offer to run...so I guess I'm stuck...
Does anyone else feel this way or am I just one lone basketcase?
My group switched over a couple summers ago when the newest edition came out...and it first it was fun.
But after a while the game started to wear on me more and more to the point where I am starting to actively disdain it.
My problems with 4E:
Everyone raves about how dynamic and fun 4E combat is, but to me it's been getting increasingly boring and even LESS dynamic than in previous editions.
I don't mind the minis heavy aspect, as my group has been using minis since way back in the AD&D 2nd Edition days.
What I DO mind is the ceaseless HP grind, metagaming, and all around lack of drama.
It used to be that combat in D&D was dangerous and exciting...fights were short and deadly, our players were using their imaginations and it just seemed like the stakes were much higher when there was the possibility that one could die at any time.
Now it just seems that the game has discarded it's swords and spells for wiffle ball bats and water balloons. Yeah...it sucked when your character got hit with a save-or-die effect and had to sit the game for a while to await a raise dead spell or roll up a new character...but that was part of the game and added to the drama of combat encounters.
Furthermore, it seems that instead of describing characters actions in a cool narrative faction, combat has become:
"I shift 1 sq. and use Spinning sweep to knock the Orc Raider prone, then I spend an action point to use rain of blows with combat advantage...at this time I will also activate my Half-Orc racial power to do an additional 1d10 damage to the attack...also he is now marked"
Maybe not all groups are like this, but in mine combat has become a disjointed litany of metagame terms to the point where fights sound like people just reciting rules on each of their turns. It feels distinctly like interacting with a game rather than interacting with a living world.
Which brings me to my next problem...healing surges. Hit points were always highly abstracted...and I tried to reconcile the idea of second winds and other nonmagical healing...but I just can't see how a few encouraging words from a Warlord with no mystical power behind them causes the Wizard to shrug off what WAS a devastating axe blow.
Classes have become much more balanced, true. And at first I thought it was cool that my Fighter could operate on par with other members of the group...but I can't help but feel like a lot of classes lost their sense of originality in the process of all this balancing, to the point wher eit feels like there are really just minor variations on the same 4 classes (Defender, Controller, Striker, Leader) with some minor little gimmick anymore.
I wouldn't say that martial characters are like spellcasters per se...but to me there is little difference between a martial power that blinds enemies in a burst 1, and an arcane power that has the same effect. It seems like the only real difference is the implement used and a few minor keywords with no specific effect.
What's more, everything just feels so rigid and modular. How many core classes are there now? Like 23? Do we really need that many? At this point it really just feels like pointless grid filling.
Also, skill challenges. While I appreciate that WotC tried to codify and define a way to award xp for out of combat challenges...but it seems like the structure of social challenges encourages the same kind of metagame rules recitation as combat. We used to actually roleplay our way through these things, but now we just roll our D20's until the skill challenge is over.
Monsters in 4E seem like lifeless blocks of stats now...and they lack any real threat, instead imposing minor annoyances rather than any sort of palpable danger.
And don't even get me started on WotC's GSL and PDF site shenanigans...but that's a whole separate thread.
It just seems to me that 4E is a rigid and compartmentalized little box...and while it's a well constructed little box, it just lacks the sort of inspiration and flavor that I'm looking for in a game. It used to be that I would hang out with my friends and have a great time gaming, but now while I still love my friends, the gaming aspect has become a necessary exercise in tedium. They however, aren't really interested in playing anything else, even when I offer to run...so I guess I'm stuck...
Does anyone else feel this way or am I just one lone basketcase?
In any case, welcome to ENW.
