D&D 4E Strongholds and Henchmen for 4e

[mattcolville]

There's no real expectation on my part that these rules will survive contact with the players.

What I've learned is that when I introduce a house rule that I considered "Balanced" the players tend not to use it. A balanced house rule is at a disadvantage because, not being official, it's not supported by anything and therefore requires more work to keep track of with no commensurate benefit.

So I delberately make them awesome, so players go "damn, I want that." Then as we play, the players realize "this is too good" and we scale it back to something that's more advantageous certainly than a genuinely balanced rule, but nothing like "all your encounter powers stun everyone they hit."

So I have expectations that this will get scaled back and, indeed, I have an idea what they'll be scaled back *to*, but that's a journey my players and I need to make together.

 

[Starfox]

AV2 has some rules on magical locations giving you powers similar to magic items, does it not? Could those rules be used for strongholds - building a stronghold would be similar to enchanting a magic item.

Just and idea, I do not have AV2 so I can't really tell if its viable.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

AV2 has some rules on magical locations giving you powers similar to magic items, does it not? Could those rules be used for strongholds - building a stronghold would be similar to enchanting a magic item.

Just and idea, I do not have AV2 so I can't really tell if its viable.

AV2 has Lair Items which certainly are nice little touches to add to your stronghold if you have one.

I dunno, I'm not really being critical of this whole thing but I think my players at least would have a hard time swallowing the idea that possession of a piece of real estate would do something for them in combat. I can think of ways to make that work but then they all seem like they pretty much boil down to breaking the direct link between stronghold and combat powers.

I guess IMHO its hard to imagine players turning down zero cost strongholds unless they really don't have ANY interest in that kind of play. Its a difficult area to put together hard and fast rules for that will work in every game.

 

[Starfox]

I guess IMHO its hard to imagine players turning down zero cost strongholds unless they really don't have ANY interest in that kind of play. Its a difficult area to put together hard and fast rules for that will work in every game.

Oh, I've seen players who'd pay not[/n] to have a stronghold and the attendant responsibilities. And some who would pay for it very dearly. Problem is in DnD, where gold is a form of xp, having a stronghold becomes a role-play tax.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Oh, I've seen players who'd pay not[/n] to have a stronghold and the attendant responsibilities. And some who would pay for it very dearly. Problem is in DnD, where gold is a form of xp, having a stronghold becomes a role-play tax.

Maybe I've inadequately made my point. Its not an RP tax if there is no gold piece cost to having a stronghold.

I didn't rehash all the alternative ways of handling strongholds and related stuff before because I didn't want to distract people from talking about your idea, being your thread and all. Plus there have been oodles of threads discussing the various alternatives before. There are a LOT of possibilities though besides PCs have to pay gold for a stronghold.

Personally I've always held to the 'non-fungibility' of real property in campaign settings theory. Castles and such simply can't really be bought and sold. If a situation arises where money changes hands for real property then the PC should recoup their investment rapidly in some fashion or if they acquire a lot of cash via property then it should be in a circumstance where it does them no good beyond normal levels of PC wealth. Such situations should be quite rare.

 

[S'mon]

How about treating strongholds as Magic Items? They could grant eg a skill check benefit (eg Arcane Tower: +2 Arcana, Religious Temple: +2 Religion); plus a Daily power, like other magic items. The 4e system really seems very well set up for this approach.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

How about treating strongholds as Magic Items? They could grant eg a skill check benefit (eg Arcane Tower: +2 Arcana, Religious Temple: +2 Religion); plus a Daily power, like other magic items. The 4e system really seems very well set up for this approach.

Well, I think essentially DMG2 gives you the tools already to do the same thing effectively. The PC is essentially buying a boon. In fact I kind of think this scenario is pretty well covered by the boon/master training alternate rewards system. They don't specifically mention building a stronghold as a route to a boon, but it seems like the kind of thing they're talking about.

 

[S'mon]

Well, I think essentially DMG2 gives you the tools already to do the same thing effectively. The PC is essentially buying a boon. In fact I kind of think this scenario is pretty well covered by the boon/master training alternate rewards system. They don't specifically mention building a stronghold as a route to a boon, but it seems like the kind of thing they're talking about.

Yup, that's what I was thinking. "Guardian of the Seventh Tower" gives you a 10th level Martial boon, that kind of thing. Being Wizard Lord of the Crystal Cave gives you a 12th level Arcane boon, and so on.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Yup, that's what I was thinking. "Guardian of the Seventh Tower" gives you a 10th level Martial boon, that kind of thing. Being Wizard Lord of the Crystal Cave gives you a 12th level Arcane boon, and so on.

Absolutely. I'd also consider heavily customized or entirely original Paragon Paths as well. Actually, given the large number of available PPs, its pretty easy to steal some from other classes or mix and match. Same could be true with powers, you can always steal a power from another class, reflavor it, and call it a boon.