Swordmage / Paladin hybrid cheese?

[Truename]

One of my players is a consummate min-maxer. We're starting a new campaign (WotBS, actually) and he'd like to play a hybrid swordmage / paladin.

I want to say yes, but I'm also worried about him overshadowing the other players. I know most hybrids are actually weaker than straight classes, but if there's an advantage to be found, this player will find it. Do I have anything to worry about?

 

[Danceofmasks]

Is it an eladrin?

swordmage | paladin sounds like a feycharger to me.

 

[Truename]

Is it an eladrin?

swordmage | paladin sounds like a feycharger to me.

Yes, probably eladrin. He was also asking whether the swordmage Aegis of Assault mark and paladin Divine Challenge mark could be used on the same target.

 

[Herschel]

No, they can not. One overrides the other.

 

[Obryn]

Here's a thread...

[4e] Building a paladin/swordmage...any good optimization ideas? - RPGnet Forums

Basically, expect him to use Power of Arcana to turn Virtuous Strike (which is already a Basic Attack) into an Arcane power, and then expect some White Lotus fun on top of that. Which more or less means that he'd have an insane MBA after his Aegis of Assault kicks in. Abusive? I dunno. I'd have to see it in play.

(And no, in the wording for both Divine Challenge and Swordmage Aegis, it specifies that other marks override them. Also, unlike a Fighter or a Warden, both Paladins and Swordmages care how the enemy was marked.)

-O

 

[Fanaelialae]

He might also intend to use Divine Challenge to move his Aegis as needed (since hybrid Aegis can't normally be moved except by the target dropping dead or another mark overwriting it). It doesn't really strike me as broken though, considering it requires both a move and a minor to shift the Aegis in a single turn.

 

[interwyrm]

Basically, expect him to use Power of Arcana to turn Virtuous Strike (which is already a Basic Attack) into an Arcane power, and then expect some White Lotus fun on top of that. Which more or less means that he'd have an insane MBA after his Aegis of Assault kicks in. Abusive? I dunno. I'd have to see it in play.

This is essentially the same cheese as Swordmage|Warlock with eldritch strike, so I'm going to compare the two.

S|W Pros:
More damage due to warlock curse on aegis of assault target.
Better stat synergy (Int and Cha/Int)
More teleport synergy from paragon path.
More strikery.

S|P Pros:
More hit points
Better defenses
More defendery.

There's also the S|Infernalock, which looks fun, but I'm not too familiar with it.

 

[Truename]

He might also intend to use Divine Challenge to move his Aegis as needed (since hybrid Aegis can't normally be moved except by the target dropping dead or another mark overwriting it). It doesn't really strike me as broken though, considering it requires both a move and a minor to shift the Aegis in a single turn.

Yes, I noticed that as well. It may not be broken, but it seems to be violating the RAI, since Aegis turning into an encounter power is one of the nerfs the Hybrid SM gets.

I spend way too much rules attention on this guy.

 

[Obryn]

...and let's toss in a Fighter multiclass feat - say, Battle Awareness - to add in more Feycharger cheese on top of this. So, AFAICT, this build would do the following...

(1) Mark one target, charge another target, using Fey Step.
(2) Make two Virtuous Strike attacks - one for Eladrin Charge, one for Eladrin Swordmage Advance. If the charge attack hits, keep Fey Step.
(3) Add on top of this all the various White Lotus whammies he picked up - guessing White Lotus Riposte + White Lotus Master Riposte. Maybe there's something even better, though.
(4) If the mark is violated - and it probably will be a lot - teleport again, and do the Virtuous Strike with the White Lotus whammies.

And yeah, as mentioned above, he can just Divine Challenge his Aegis target to recharge his Aegis.

So I think this has the potential to be an absolutely abusive one-trick pony. I get a nagging feeling that Arcane Admixture features in somewhere.

-O

 

[interwyrm]

Any chance you could ask the player for his intended build?

I'm thinking he'll lean more towards that warlock PP which gives 18-20 crits on radiant attacks.