Swordmage / Paladin hybrid cheese?

[Destil]

Eh, the paladin hybrid mark sucks pretty bad, while the swordmage hybrid mark is one of the stronger ones. I don't think looking at class features you'll be seeing a character much more powerful than a multiclass build. Hell, he'll need a feat just to get AC up to par.

 

[Rechan]

I agree that the marks for both classes suck as far as Hybrids are concerned.

 

[interwyrm]

I agree that the marks for both classes suck as far as Hybrids are concerned.

That's... not what anyone said.

Depending on what you're going for, the swordmage mark is pretty good. The big thing here is that the swordmage mark doesn't lose a whole lot when you switch to hybrid.

 

[Rechan]

That's... not what anyone said.

Ahem:

the paladin hybrid mark sucks pretty bad

Would you like it more if I said "I agree the paladin mark sucks, and I think the SM one does too"?

 

[yesnomu]

Not to mention that both hybrid marks require an immediate action to punish--if he's going to be an effective defender, he won't want to use WLMR much.

 

[interwyrm]

Would you like it more if I said "I agree the paladin mark sucks, and I think the SM one does too"?

Yes, I would.

Anyway, I just reread the thread... and I think the player is probably misunderstanding some things and will re-evaluate the choice once it's cleared up.

Aegis of Assault and Divine Challenge cannot be on the same target, and you can't even use both in the same round if they are on different targets due to action restrictions.

At paragon, this can be someone ameliorated by taking the hospitaler path.. but it will be weaker than usual since that mark is wisdom based.

As I mentioned before, the most abusive thing that comes to mind is the student of caiphon PP...
The idea would be to make basic attacks radiant via Power of Arcana and virtuous strike, and then use swordmage advance, aegis of assault, and lotus riposte master to increase the number of basic attacks he deals out. Combine this with a magic weapon with the rending property for extra basic attacks on a crit.
If you allow the windrise ports background, a fighter multi will be thrown in for reusable swordmage advance.

 

[Davachido]

...and let's toss in a Fighter multiclass feat - say, Battle Awareness - to add in more Feycharger cheese on top of this. So, AFAICT, this build would do the following...

(1) Mark one target, charge another target, using Fey Step.
(2) Make two Virtuous Strike attacks - one for Eladrin Charge, one for Eladrin Swordmage Advance. If the charge attack hits, keep Fey Step.
(3) Add on top of this all the various White Lotus whammies he picked up - guessing White Lotus Riposte + White Lotus Master Riposte. Maybe there's something even better, though.
(4) If the mark is violated - and it probably will be a lot - teleport again, and do the Virtuous Strike with the White Lotus whammies.

And yeah, as mentioned above, he can just Divine Challenge his Aegis target to recharge his Aegis.

So I think this has the potential to be an absolutely abusive one-trick pony. I get a nagging feeling that Arcane Admixture features in somewhere.

-O

That got me thinking now.. Eladrin Fighter/Barbarian (taking the barbarian feat for swift charge) with multiclass swordmage for eladrin swordmage advance.

I can imagine a turn going, Charge -> hit twice (maybe thrice if a crit is involved) -> reduce enemy to 0 -> charge another enemy -> hit twice again, and you still have fey step not expended. Fey step in my mind is now becoming a little silly with certain hybrids

Of course if you miss on the first charge attack all this goes out the window, but with good usage of powers (leader's bonus to attack etc.) will have you rarely missing.

 

[Obryn]

Good point with Student of Caiphon. About all I can say to that is that it would put Eladrin Charge out of reach. Whether or not that's worth an insane crit rate is probably a matter of taste.

-O