coyote6
Adventurer
I would.
I don't remember if they changed it in Pathfinder or not, but letting you reroll those would be RAW for 3.5e -- PH, p. 8: "you may scrap them and roll all six scores again . . . if your highest score is a 13 or lower".
Pathfinder 1E Pathfinder Character Creation: Point Buy or Roll of the Die?
- Thread starter ancientvaults
- Start date
I would.
I don't remember if they changed it in Pathfinder or not, but letting you reroll those would be RAW for 3.5e -- PH, p. 8: "you may scrap them and roll all six scores again . . . if your highest score is a 13 or lower".
Mark Chance
Boingy! Boingy!
I would depending on what type of beer you brought with you.
This is the stat generation method I'm leaning toward using next time I get the chance:
Elite+(1d6+2)
Every character starts with the elite array, arranged to taste: 15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8. Roll 1d6+2. You get this many points to adjust ability scores. Apply racial adjustments after point-buy. Costs are as follows:
Score is 8 to 13: 1 point for a +1 to score.
Score is 14 or 15: 2 points for a +1 to score.
Score is 16 or 17: 3 points for a +1 to score.
Score is 18 or 19: 4 points for a +1 to score.
For example, Bob rolls a 3, giving him 5 points to adjust his array. He spends 2 points to raise the 8 to a 10 (1 point to get to 9, 1 point to get to 10). He spends 3 points to raise the 15 to a 16. This gives Bob this array: 16, 14, 13, 12, 10, 10 (before racial adjustments). Let's make Bob's character a dwarf (+2 Con, +2 Wis, -2 Cha). Bob ends up with these scores (after racial adjustments): STR 14, DEX 13, CON 18, INT 10, WIS 12, CHA 10.
Level Increases
Every four levels, a character gets 4 more points to spend on raising his ability scores. For example, Bob's PC hits 4th level. Bob spends to 2 points to raise his INT from 10 to 12 and 2 more points to raise his STR from 14 to 15.
I wouldn't.
Since I'm allowing either point-buy or use standard arrays, anyone wishing to roll for stats in the hope of getting something better than with the method everyone else uses will have to suck it up if it doesn't work out.
Actually, this happened once in my campaign. It didn't take long for the player to decide he'd rather let the character commit suicide and use point-buy for the replacement pc (who, alas, had to start one level lower).
billd91
Not your screen monkey (he/him) 🇺🇦🇵🇸🏳️⚧️
The way I have my players generate their PCs, I have them roll two sets of stats - 4d6 drop lowest - and then pick the PC they'd find more interesting to play. If the alternate PC had lower results than the one you posted here, which is unlikely but possible, you'd still have to choose between the two.
It would be reasonably clear that destiny had tipped its hand and declared that you must play the Everyman...
Burn_Boy
First Post
My group and I have pretty much abolished rolling our stats. Mainly because I usually rolled four or five 16s and nothing lower than a 12, and everyone else rolling a 14 was cause to celebrate, which was a bit unfair but I did like having more CON than our tank, when I was a Sorcerer.
Now we use point-buy and we have a system where the XP progression we use determines how many points we get.
Fast XP Progression - 10 points
Medium XP Progession - 15 points
Slow XP Progression - 20 points
We also all start at 10 for every stat.
Now we use point-buy and we have a system where the XP progression we use determines how many points we get.
Fast XP Progression - 10 points
Medium XP Progession - 15 points
Slow XP Progression - 20 points
We also all start at 10 for every stat.
Winterthorn
Monster Manager
I let my players vote on the method since I want them to enjoy the game, and different groups I've GM'ed have different expectations.
My own past preference was the "Organic Method" found in the old 3.5 DMG: roll 4d6 and add the higest three die; do this in order of STR, DEX, CON, INT, WIS, and CHA; then reroll a stat of your choice, and finally switch two stat results. I really like the feel of the choices and yet their is some restriction too.
Now I'm more open to new methods; I like some of the ideas in this thread
There is one thing I noticed over the years: if players are very competitive personalities, it may be better to use a point buy or array to reduce complaints and frustration over perceived inequity. YMMV.
My own past preference was the "Organic Method" found in the old 3.5 DMG: roll 4d6 and add the higest three die; do this in order of STR, DEX, CON, INT, WIS, and CHA; then reroll a stat of your choice, and finally switch two stat results. I really like the feel of the choices and yet their is some restriction too.
Now I'm more open to new methods; I like some of the ideas in this thread
There is one thing I noticed over the years: if players are very competitive personalities, it may be better to use a point buy or array to reduce complaints and frustration over perceived inequity. YMMV.
Last edited:
kyrand
First Post
For my current mini-campaign, and the massive one I'm planning, I've decided to use 24d6, drop the lowest 6, then assign no more than three dice to a given stat. If a player decides they want to ensure 1-2 stats are really high, chances are good that means at least one stat < 10. Or they can try for middle of the road on all six.
Though there is still a minute chance for a low roll, at which point I plan to give that player the option of a point-buy.
Though there is still a minute chance for a low roll, at which point I plan to give that player the option of a point-buy.
How about cards?
I dislike rolling and am not a big fan of Point buy. The rolling process is fair, but the outcome can be anything but fair. Point buy is fair, but not very organic. I do like the organic nature of some randomness in stat creation. Stat arrays are ok, but when was the last time you saw a wizard not put their highest number in INT?
[sblock=A Rolling Story]So my group was discussing how to make characters for a new campaign and we had decided that everyone would roll a stat block (in order) and anyone could play any stat array. The Powergamer of the group unilaterally (we were still discussing the details)decided to start rolling 4d6, drop low. He rolled 16, 15, 12, 17, 18, 15. The group nearly unanimously (only the Powergamer voted no) decided all stat arrays had to be from 28-32 point buy equivalent and would be adjusted down or up as appropriate. The array I rolled (after we decided on the method) was 13, 12, 7, 9, 10, 11.
The really funny part was that the Powergamer didn't understand why everyone voted against him.
[/sblock]
[sblock=Our current method]
1- Take 20 cards from 1-6(totaling whatever power level the DM/group can agree on*)
2- Set aside a 1 and a 6
3- randomly deal out 3 cards, IN ORDER, for str, dex...
4- add the 6 to 1 stat# and the 1 to another stat (Before or after revealing the random cards depending on how cruel the DM wants to be)
5- add up the cards and adjust for race
* example: elite array of 15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8 = 72; Could be (1-6)x3, 6, 3
# 18 maximum, lose any excess[/sblock]
It's organic (random, in order), but fair. The +6 will let you make a modest roll good if you really want to play a (insert class here). The +1 lets you turn an odd number even.
I dislike rolling and am not a big fan of Point buy. The rolling process is fair, but the outcome can be anything but fair. Point buy is fair, but not very organic. I do like the organic nature of some randomness in stat creation. Stat arrays are ok, but when was the last time you saw a wizard not put their highest number in INT?
[sblock=A Rolling Story]So my group was discussing how to make characters for a new campaign and we had decided that everyone would roll a stat block (in order) and anyone could play any stat array. The Powergamer of the group unilaterally (we were still discussing the details)decided to start rolling 4d6, drop low. He rolled 16, 15, 12, 17, 18, 15. The group nearly unanimously (only the Powergamer voted no) decided all stat arrays had to be from 28-32 point buy equivalent and would be adjusted down or up as appropriate. The array I rolled (after we decided on the method) was 13, 12, 7, 9, 10, 11.
The really funny part was that the Powergamer didn't understand why everyone voted against him.
[/sblock]
[sblock=Our current method]
1- Take 20 cards from 1-6(totaling whatever power level the DM/group can agree on*)
2- Set aside a 1 and a 6
3- randomly deal out 3 cards, IN ORDER, for str, dex...
4- add the 6 to 1 stat# and the 1 to another stat (Before or after revealing the random cards depending on how cruel the DM wants to be)
5- add up the cards and adjust for race
* example: elite array of 15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8 = 72; Could be (1-6)x3, 6, 3
# 18 maximum, lose any excess[/sblock]
It's organic (random, in order), but fair. The +6 will let you make a modest roll good if you really want to play a (insert class here). The +1 lets you turn an odd number even.
poilbrun
Explorer
My problem with the generation of abilities in a random order is that you end up with players choosing a character class based on the abilities rather than on what they want to play. I read a lot of game books and I often think about what my next character will be, going as far as having some background always ready should a campaign start unexpectedly. I'd be gutted if randomness would stop me from playing my halfing paladin riding on a wardog! And of course, would you really want to play a wizard with 10 in INT, casting only cantrips and 1st-level spells (the bonus #6 card plus three random cards 1-1-2)?
With such a system, I would always allow one swap to enable each player to play the class he wants. You might not necessarily end up with the highest score assigned to the most important stat. In the wizard example above, if my highest stat was CON and my second was STR, I would definitely swap my 10 INT with STR.
What I also don't like about random order is that it does not really make sense to have heroes (because in most games, that's what the PCs are destined to be) weak in their main areas. Having a wizard hero who is strong in wizardy but weak physically make sense (think Raistlin Majere), the other way around does not. The internal logic of the world is also strained: why would the very strong but stupid guy decide to become a wizard rather than a fighter? Sure, you can create reasons in the background, but that's just trying to fit square pegs in round holes (or is it the other way around, round pegs in square holes?).
Marx420
First Post
3d6 for each stat in order, with 6 bonus die pool which can be utilized as desired in any of these rolls discarding all but the highest 3 die. Swap any two stats reroll 1 if necessary.
I feel this creates characters of an appropriate power level as well reinforcing the idea these characters are not "yours" but separate packages of hopes and dreams in paper form whose value is as people not rules vehicles.
I do keep track of everyones modifier totals, however, as an additional metric to gauge their general "power level" and distribute treasure and tailor encounter design accordingly so as to keep PC's on roughly even playing field.
I feel this creates characters of an appropriate power level as well reinforcing the idea these characters are not "yours" but separate packages of hopes and dreams in paper form whose value is as people not rules vehicles.
I do keep track of everyones modifier totals, however, as an additional metric to gauge their general "power level" and distribute treasure and tailor encounter design accordingly so as to keep PC's on roughly even playing field.
