Hybrid choices for 11 ranger/wizard?

[Voadam]

I have the PH but don't have DDI.

I'm making an 11th level character who is a ranger multiclass paragon path into wizard. The DM suggested I consider going hybrid instead. I'd rather have the character ready to go when the game starts instead of taking up game time to walk through DDI on his computer to learn the hybrid rules and make character choices before we start.

Can somebody explain hybridizing for me and the specific choices I'd get compared to normal PH Paragon multiclassing?

Thanks.

 

[Flipguarder]

hilariously, I opened my DDI to answer this question.

I'd be curious what your Goal with this character is. Because as is right now either way he'd be pretty gimped Optimization-wise because you currently have 4 stats to keep up.

 

[Amaroq]

The hybrid rules are basically, you must take powers alternating from each class.

So, if you are a Level 1 Elf Ranger/Wizard hybrid, you must take 1 Ranger At-Will and 1 Wizard At-Will. You can pick either a Ranger or a Wizard power for your Encounter and Daily .. but when you get another power of the same type, it must be of the opposite class. So, if at Level 1 I took Off-Hand Attack from the Ranger powers, at Level 3 I must take a Wizard encounter power of L3 or lower. At Level 7, I'm free to take from either class again.

For getting access to the base class features, you get some of them based on the specific classes chosen .. from there you can spend a feat on Hybrid Talent to pick up additional class features that you weren't granted "for free". As before, when you use Hybrid Talent twice, the second Talent must come from the opposite class as the first one.

It really focuses on being a 50-50 multiclass solution; if you really do want one base class with some sprinkled flavors of the second class, you probably want to use the existing multiclassing rules.

 

[Voadam]

hilariously, I opened my DDI to answer this question.

I'd be curious what your Goal with this character is. Because as is right now either way he'd be pretty gimped Optimization-wise because you currently have 4 stats to keep up.

Partially recreating a prior edition multiclassed character I'm comfortable roleplaying. A viking warrior who learned magic. I understood going in that multiclassing in 4e is generally suboptimal.

Focused on Str for melee and Int for ranged magic and AC/reflex. Dump stat dex.

Ditched all tw ranger melee powers for the wizard swap feats and used a quarterstaff as a +3 weapon/implement.

I took ritual caster and bought up some low level rituals.

Ended up with decent enough combo of melee and range but doesn't use one of his at wills (a two weapon one) or the benefits of his two weapon style (outside of bonus toughness feat). I'd much rather have a second wizard at will and could live without the fighting style, particularly if I picked up the wizard free ritual features. I think hunter's quarry is important to keep though to do a striker role.

 

[Voadam]

For getting access to the base class features, you get some of them based on the specific classes chosen .. from there you can spend a feat on Hybrid Talent to pick up additional class features that you weren't granted "for free". As before, when you use Hybrid Talent twice, the second Talent must come from the opposite class as the first one.

What are the base options for hybrid rangers and wizards?

What are the base talent feat options for rangers and wizards?

The two class features I'd most want would be Hunter's Quarry and Ritual stuff for the wizard.

How are class skills chosen?

 

[Flipguarder]

Id do Hybrid Thaneborn barbarian/Dragon magic Sorcerer, reflavor how you want. The advantage here is that you go from having 4 stats to keep up to 2. This will very much allow you to keep up the stats for both ideas. Also both roles are strikers so you won't waste several powers on controller abilities.

Ritual casting might be an issue, but unless thats absolutely necessary this will make you an axe-wielding spell throwing monster.

 

[mneme]

Ok, so is there any reason the character has to be (mechanically) a wizard, rather than a different arcane caster who throws around elemental magic and uses two weapons?

The obvious multi/hybrid that springs to mind is Barbarian/Sorcerer. 3rd edition Rangers are actually primal, not martial, and barbarians can now use two weapons just fine. Your AC would be terrible, but hey, you can't have everything, right?

Another option would be to go Assault Swordmage/Ranger. Str/Int as mains, with some Wis, and focus on implement spells for the Swordsmage spells to give you more of a wizard feel. Probably want a Zulat (from the Eberon book; a 2d4 double glaive).

Of course, it's not like you can't build a ranger/wizard; you have. You just end up with terrible secondaries (though Wis is a secondary for both, as is con) and supporting two main stats that don't have much synergy.

How much freedom do you have in terms of race? If you can go Genasi (if the original character was human, perhaps his elemental magics backlashed and turned him into a bit of an elemental himself?), you can actually benefit from your high Strength by adding it to all your wizard spells. That's a fine build, as you end up with a wizard that plays a lot like a sorcerer, and it's easy to hybrid/multi to Ranger from there.

 

[mneme]

What are the base options for hybrid rangers and wizards?

What are the base talent feat options for rangers and wizards?

First: You can get a feat to treat a staff as a defensive double weapon. That way you don't lose Twin Strike, and on top of that you end up with +1 AC. Since Twin Strike is actually more important to ranger's striker damage than Quarry, this is totally worthwhile.

Hybrid strikers (including rangers) get their striker feature as base -- but it only works with class powers from that class. So twin strike and ranger powers get Quarry damage, spells don't. (this isn't true for multiclass rangers, only hybrid).

The only viable/interesting Ranger hybrid talents are fighting style (exactly like regular fighting styles except that beastmaster beasts get a -1 on attack rolls and defenses) and Ranger armor (hide armor, weapon proficienes).

Hybrid wizards give up ritual casting and can't get it back as a full feature; they keep cantrips and can get implement mastery back with a feat (this is because wizard spells are most of their class features, particularly the sustain minor dailies).

Note that without going paragon hybrid, you can't take more than one hybrid talent -- so it would be either a weapon talent, -or- hide armor, -or- an Implement mastery. And to get Ritual casting back, you'd need to spend a feat on that (if you buy wisdom to 13, you could multiclass Invoker with Divine Secretkeeper and get the -invoker's- ritual casting feature (which comes with a free ritual, Hand of Fate, and the ability to cast Hand of Fate for free once a day).

 

[Voadam]

Thanks, I've had sword mage and barbarian sorcerer suggested before for the concept but I've only recently gotten the holiday PH I&II bundle deal and only read through I so far so ranger and wizard are the only things I'm mechanically familiar with in 4e. And the game is Friday.

I was thinking if hybrid would be similar to my paragon build I could easily swap around the differences and possibly smooth out the things I wasn't using for things I would. It doesn't look like it gets me much though.

What is the name of that staff feat and where is it from? From 3e I was used to staves being double weapons and surprised it wasn't that way in 4e. That would be helpful for what I've already built

 

[Jack99]

Partially recreating a prior edition multiclassed character I'm comfortable roleplaying. A viking warrior who learned magic. I understood going in that multiclassing in 4e is generally suboptimal.

Focused on Str for melee and Int for ranged magic and AC/reflex. Dump stat dex.

Ditched all tw ranger melee powers for the wizard swap feats and used a quarterstaff as a +3 weapon/implement.

I took ritual caster and bought up some low level rituals.

Ended up with decent enough combo of melee and range but doesn't use one of his at wills (a two weapon one) or the benefits of his two weapon style (outside of bonus toughness feat). I'd much rather have a second wizard at will and could live without the fighting style, particularly if I picked up the wizard free ritual features. I think hunter's quarry is important to keep though to do a striker role.

What was he fighting with/wearing in the prior edition?