Monk To Hit- I don't get it, weak?

[Goonalan]

Are you absolutely certain that ther hasn't been a mix up such that either the DM or the player is checking the Monk's hit rolls vs. AC instead of Fort/Ref/Will?

Positive (I'm the DM) it's all macroed up, we're in Maptools- exact wording of the powers feats et al, the reason I keep plugging away at this is-

1. We've obviously added in other players and classes during the campaign, we've never had this problem before with a PC Class being so underpowered compared to the other players. I wanted to see if it was something we're doing wrong, or have other people had similar experiences?

2. Suggestions for a fix?

Thanks for the suggestions with the wording of the creatures descriptions etc. we're pretty graphic, I even do screaming and shouting et al, I've been at the game for approaching 30 years. The biggest hinderance at times is Skype, some evening no problems at all, others-

DM- The brutish looking Half-Orc swings and curses, yelling something about the miserable looking dwarfs parentage.

Silence follows.

Eventually.

Dwarven Warrior- Sorry what was that my 2 year old daughter has just been sick on the cat.

So between Skype and Life, what with computers being in rooms in which children and other family members can intrude. We've had sessions in which players have to use text only because there was a party going on, or they had family round.

Anyway- fixes?

Cheers Paul

 

[UngeheuerLich]

yeah, i know piratecat... it can happen... bell curve and such^^

but it in the perception of the DM and player it seems the designers fault, not bad luck.
So i somehow he misses on rolls higher than 11 a lot, which is to blame at either the DM by having too high level opponents or the play for trying to push and trip bullies.

I would check if he only chose attacks vs fortitude at-wills, if this is the case, i don´t wonder why he misses all the time.

If the cleric doesn´t buff, fighters don´t try to give combat advantage its another problem. Just because a monk doesn´t need CA to get in his striker damage, doesn´t mean he can´t make good use of it.
with his high mobility and ok armor class he should be able to dart in deliver a blow and dart out.

 

[Stalker0]

Damnit Piratecat, don't tell me the odds!

The odds of someone making this joke were 100%


Back to the OP, it seems like you are absolutely convinced the monk needs a better to hit. So forget the forum's opinion and go give him that +3

 

[Goonalan]

yeah, i know piratecat... it can happen... bell curve and such^^

but it in the perception of the DM and player it seems the designers fault, not bad luck.
So i somehow he misses on rolls higher than 11 a lot, which is to blame at either the DM by having too high level opponents or the play for trying to push and trip bullies.

I would check if he only chose attacks vs fortitude at-wills, if this is the case, i don´t wonder why he misses all the time.

If the cleric doesn´t buff, fighters don´t try to give combat advantage its another problem. Just because a monk doesn´t need CA to get in his striker damage, doesn´t mean he can´t make good use of it.
with his high mobility and ok armor class he should be able to dart in deliver a blow and dart out.

Cleric is a War Cleric, he buffs only as an incidental thing. Fighters get straight into the mix and try to provide CA, Mage stands at the back and opens up- all good. Assassin in shade form, teleporting around the battle field works a treat.

So once again we arrive at my point, and no he doesn't just attack Fort, he attacks Will and Reflex- he has a good array of Powers, I've checked through the 44 or so Monk Powers on the Compendium- he seems to have taken the best of them and yet...

For four sessions, 20 hours, he has hit pretty much squat- so what people are saying is that it isn't they've noticed in their games, therefore it's something that only we're experiencing.

Therefore can you suggest any House Rules to fix this- otherwise I'm going to either-

Give the guy a +2 Weapon Bonus on his Unarmed Attack (or something like this).

Or invent a Magic Item- Hand or Gauntlets, some Fist of the North Star type thing with added bonuses as above.

Thanks.

 

[Goonalan]

The odds of someone making this joke were 100%


Back to the OP, it seems like you are absolutely convinced the monk needs a better to hit. So forget the forum's opinion and go give him that +3

I probably will, I'm still a little stumped as to why it's only happening for us.

Cheers

 

[Ryujin]

I probably will, I'm still a little stumped as to why it's only happening for us.

Cheers

Lack of character optimization?

Bad luck?

 

[Mengu]

Once again I see what you're saying but the monsters the PCs are fighting Have ACs as high as 32 (for the big bad guys), Fort for the Brutes higher (I think), but you know what I'm saying, average other stats for the run-of-the-mills enemies 25-28

This right here is the problem. Average non-AC defense for level 10 creatures should be 22 (+/-2). If your run of the mill opponent has 25-28 for fortitude or reflex, that's not going to be fun to deal with. 32 AC or Fortitude is just bad news.

But there are things the monk can do to make himself more accurate:

1. Find a race that gives you some accuracy boost. Elf is an excellent choice.
2. Choose a few burst powers. The more enemies you attack, the better a chance you'll hit at least one.
3. Pick a weapon as implement. Dagger works great.
4. Get focused expertise.
5. Grab Mark of Passage. This will allow you easier navigation into flanks.
6. Grab Nimble Blade. This boosts accuracy when flanking.
7. Pick Disciple of Divine Wrath. This will help you land important encounter powers, and boost your accuracy during action point rounds.
8. Pick Coordinated Explosion. You'll be able to include an ally in a burst often enough to reap the benefit. And most your bursts are ally friendly.

+14 vs non-AC attack is quite reasonable for an implement user at level 10. Look for synergy with other party members through flanks, leader bonuses, controller debuffs, etc. to hit more reliably. And kindly ask the DM to stop using creatures you can only hit 25% of the time. The "fun" hit rate should be around 65-75%.

 

[Goonalan]

This right here is the problem. Average non-AC defense for level 10 creatures should be 22 (+/-2). If your run of the mill opponent has 25-28 for fortitude or reflex, that's not going to be fun to deal with. 32 AC or Fortitude is just bad news.

But there are things the monk can do to make himself more accurate:

1. Find a race that gives you some accuracy boost. Elf is an excellent choice.
2. Choose a few burst powers. The more enemies you attack, the better a chance you'll hit at least one.
3. Pick a weapon as implement. Dagger works great.
4. Get focused expertise.
5. Grab Mark of Passage. This will allow you easier navigation into flanks.
6. Grab Nimble Blade. This boosts accuracy when flanking.
7. Pick Disciple of Divine Wrath. This will help you land important encounter powers, and boost your accuracy during action point rounds.
8. Pick Coordinated Explosion. You'll be able to include an ally in a burst often enough to reap the benefit. And most your bursts are ally friendly.

+14 vs non-AC attack is quite reasonable for an implement user at level 10. Look for synergy with other party members through flanks, leader bonuses, controller debuffs, etc. to hit more reliably. And kindly ask the DM to stop using creatures you can only hit 25% of the time. The "fun" hit rate should be around 65-75%.

Please read previous posts, I appreciate your reply but I seem to be having to write the same thing time and time again (sorry if this sounds a little churlish). The other players level 10 are cutting through the scenario like a knife through butter, I'm having to jack up encounters above and beyond, and have been doing for quite some time.

We're 59 Sessions into the campaign, so we've been at this a while, I am the DM- save the Monk the combat is excellent, when we had the Rogue instead of the Monk then it was all fine also.

What I am saying is that nothing else is broken, then we add the Monk and after four sessions of play... he's not hitting anything.

The other players/PCs are having the time of their lives- loving it.

As to your suggestions, thanks for them, I'll check some of them out but...

He's an Elf.
He has Burst Attacks.
He has a +3 Dagger.

As to 4-8 then I'll ask the question.

Thanks again for the suggestions, sorry for snappy at the start.

I'm a nice DM- I'm trying to help my player out here, the player is incredibly bright (in the real world) so he will have probably done some of the 4-8 suggestions, I'm the not very bright one.

Cheers Paul

 

[Obryn]

This is pretty much how it is for all Implement-users. Sadly, it's part of the asymmetry inherent in the way everything's divided up.

Some weapon attacks go against F/R/W. IIRC, Rogues have more of these than most. Effectively, this amounts to a +2 or +3 to-hit versus a similar Implement-user.

OTOH, very few Implement attacks get a bonus against F/R/W.

-O

 

[Flipguarder]

Once again I see what you're saying but the monsters the PCs are fighting Have ACs as high as 32 (for the big bad guys), Fort for the Brutes higher (I think),

Anyway... House Rule? Suggestions?

I see the problems with this thread.

1. No pc should be expected to hit a soldier 6 levels higher than they are. That is simply a dm mistake

2. You seem to absolutely have to have a houserule. This is the Rules section, meaning we will try to explain your problem or fix it with the allowed rules rather than give you house rule section.


My thought is the same as others.

1. Rogues have higher to hit than others, including monks, they lose out against monks in the areas of choosing the defense they attack and mobility.

2. Luck can do wonky things (however if you throw +6 soldiers at the party, this just no longer matters.)



Coming into a forum with a problem with your game, and not having the solid numbers on the situation (chance to hit on problematic encounters, number of times rogue has hit over the monk.) and then using anecdotal evidence to decide a house rule is utterly necessary is misguided.

Admin here. See my caution below, please. ~ PCat