L4W Discussion Thread IV

[renau1g]

Yeah, I'll be honest, not really crazy about this myself. Sure PHB2 came out after the original characters, but that shouldn't be reason alone to change mechanical benefits. You want to say Tsiri's followed by a cult, cool, arcane refugee...sure, but just because you're not 'digging' it isn't reason enough to change your background.

That being said, if you used your once per level re-training to select a different benefit I'd be more inclined for that.

 

[stonegod]

Monday is a holiday in the states as well, but that just means I'll be posting more since I get the day off. (Go Presidents Day!)

A holiday for some; others have them "moved".

 

[elecgraystone]

You want to say Tsiri's followed by a cult, cool, arcane refugee...sure, but just because you're not 'digging' it isn't reason enough to change your background.

That being said, if you used your once per level re-training to select a different benefit I'd be more inclined for that.

I'm not 'digging' it now or did I really 'dig' it when I made up the character. My options where EA or nothing and a +1 insight sounded better than nothing. EA never really fit well but options where very limited at start. If you've read my last adventure you'll see that I WAS 'followed by a cult, cool, arcane refugee'.

Now that there are a dozen+ backgrounds that both fit better and give more useful bonuses, I got to thinking I should change it if I could. I'd be more than happy to wait till my next level to do it.

Nebten, what you quoted was the overhaul rules for characters not yet 2nd level. It would have nothing to do with characters 2nd or higher. Backgrounds are a grey area since regions where dealt with but nothing was updated about backgrounds.

 

[Dunamin]

Nebten, what you quoted was the overhaul rules for characters not yet 2nd level. It would have nothing to do with characters 2nd or higher.

The overhaul rules were changed to be applicable at any level, as I recall. That part of the charter seems to be out-of-date.

 

[covaithe]

Just want to make sure so that we can change our background every time we level.

Let's not abuse it. If people start abusing it, we'll have to make proposals and come up with rules and argue over the wording and all sorts of boring administrative junk that takes time. Time that we could be using to kill PCs have fun playing this game.

 

[evilbob]

So that I am clear, I hear two different things being discussed, both of which are called "background:" 1) a "character background", which is the backstory of the character and may include a specific regional or optional background description, and 2) the "background benefit", which is a mechanical trait of the character (like +2 to Stealth or whatever).

My opinion is similar to others already expressed: "character background" changes should be minimal or nonexistent. "Background benefit" changes should fall under the "feel free to change at level up" banner, like a skill or feat.


I also like the change to the "official" rule, which is now that you can generate 4 different background traits at character creation and then you'll have up to 16 different benefits from which to choose. This also implies to me that the mechanical benefit is something that should be retrainable.

 

[elecgraystone]

My opinion is similar to others already expressed: "character background" changes should be minimal or nonexistent. "Background benefit" changes should fall under the "feel free to change at level up" banner, like a skill or feat.

Well for me I started with amnesia and learned more about my background in the last adventure. As such, IMO, it would seem to be a good reason to change "character background" since blanks were filled in.

I also like the change to the "official" rule, which is now that you can generate 4 different background traits at character creation and then you'll have up to 16 different benefits from which to choose. This also implies to me that the mechanical benefit is something that should be retrainable.

Quite honestly I'd be happy to just say 'for backgrounds add one skill to skills known, add +2 to one skill or add 1 language from background' and NOT have to list those skills or language, just the benefit.

 

[evilbob]

Well for me I started with amnesia and learned more about my background in the last adventure. As such, IMO, it would seem to be a good reason to change "character background" since blanks were filled in.

That also seems fair to me.

 

[renau1g]

I'm not 'digging' it now or did I really 'dig' it when I made up the character. My options where EA or nothing and a +1 insight sounded better than nothing. EA never really fit well but options where very limited at start. If you've read my last adventure you'll see that I WAS 'followed by a cult, cool, arcane refugee'.

Now that there are a dozen+ backgrounds that both fit better and give more useful bonuses, I got to thinking I should change it if I could. I'd be more than happy to wait till my next level to do it.

Nebten, what you quoted was the overhaul rules for characters not yet 2nd level. It would have nothing to do with characters 2nd or higher. Backgrounds are a grey area since regions where dealt with but nothing was updated about backgrounds.

Again, nobody forced you to choose a background benefit at the start. covaithe, and many others didn't choose any backgrounds when they made their PC's. As for current adventure history, that's not what your character's background really is, at least as I read the backgrounds. Like I mentioned earlier, there's lots of times that the original PC's have options they feel are better fitting and more useful than was available at the start...because WOTC has released new material since then. To be fair also, the only backgrounds available when the setting was put together were the ones from the Scales of War I believe so the group did their best with them. As you were around then (I believe) you also had a chance for your input then. Looking backwards and saying "stuff out now is better than stuff out then" isn't a good argument. Anyways, as I said before I would allow it under the retraining rules, but the other argument is such a slippery slope I don't want to even consider it.

 

[evilbob]

Looking backwards and saying "stuff out now is better than stuff out then" isn't a good argument.

I dunno; I personally disagree with this thought, although I agree with your conclusion. To me, it seems like this group would want to make sure early adopters aren't disadvantaged for simply having fewer options when their characters were made. Also, the rapid rate at which 4.0 is expanded, this is - again, in my opinion - a necessary evil of the game. It seems the designers want you to constantly go back and review/switch out your options; that way you buy more stuff. It's why they included the retraining mechanic in the first place, isn't it?