What is Chick Lit?

[Jack7]

What is Women's Literature, what does it mean to you, and what would you like to see it contain or cover?

I've never much cared for Romance or writings specifically geared towards what might be called women's issues. I've got a wife, and daughters, and in some respects we have many things in common, and in other ways they have their female stuff and I have my male stuff. And those kinda things don't much intersect or intermix in most ways. Lara Croft is more my kinda woman when it comes to fictional matters. I've never really watched a soap opera in my life, and have no desire to ever start. If it's fiction I'd rather see Kirk in a fist fight for the hundredth time.

But lately I've come to understand that there is a whole field of literature (or at least a commercial field of writings) called Chick Lit, or Female Literature, or Women's Literature. I have no real idea what it is about. I suspect it has a lot more of the romance and that kind of thing in it than the stuff I like to read which is mostly man stuff. But that's just really a suppose.

Military, Detective, Westerns, Frontier, Action, Adventure, some fantasy and sci-fi. That's my bottle of beer. I'm just generalizing of course but for the most part I like stories where things blow up and mysteries get solved and people get shot and there is a good deal of danger and a real struggle to survive. I like big dogs and horses and guns and bears and dark forests and knife-fights and knights and monsters and naval battles and history and sneaking around where you're not supposed to be and manhunts and barely living through it. In one way or another I've lived many of these things and they feel natural and enjoyable to me. That's me and that's the way I like it. I'd generally call that man-stuff and stories about that kinda thing man writings. I'm mostly Hemingway and almost no Capote.

But as I said, and maybe it's because of what I'm naturally like, I know next to nothing about Chick Lit. I'm hoping it's not just another term for feminists and political writings, as I got no real interest in that kinda thing, and I'm also hoping the category might be a good deal more expansive and less limited than just that. But that being as it is, if any of you guys or gals are familiar with Chick Lit or Women's writings then tell me what they are and suggest some good reading in the subject. I could Google this whole matter of course, but I'd rather see what real people have to say on the subject.

I've been thinking lately about writing a Romance book targeted specifically at the female audience, but it wouldn't be like a kissy-kiss, long-haired, wind-blown ruined castle type of thing where the whole story is about love and sex. Or sex and love. Take your pick. The book I'm considering writing would be primarily a romance, but more like an Arthurian Romance. But before I got started fleshing out the basic idea I thought I'd investigate Chick Lit and see what it's about. I'm assuming it is generally writings of interest to women because otherwise why call it Chick Lit or Women's Literature. But I don't know any of the details and it occurred to me that one or more folks here would have some experience in the matter.

Now over time I have come to like some women author's really well. As well as nearly any man I read. Some even better. Ladies like Rowling, and Susanna Clarke, and Cecelia Holland. 'Course I'd read what they wrote anyways cause they write the kind of things that strike my fancy. We have many common interests.

But all that being said I'm really interested in exactly what is Women's Literature? Is it Chick Lit just because a woman writes it? Does it have to be about a certain type of subject matter? If so what is that subject matter? Anything else about the subject I should know? What are some good women's lit writers that maybe I should read?

What does women's lit mean to you?

If there are any females reading and ansering this thread then what would you like to see a book of women's lit contain? For instance if I wrote a book geared specifically towards a female audience then what would you like to ee it contain? What would interest you to read about as a female?

I appreciate your advice, suggestions, and ideas.

Personally I hope this thread does not devolve into a mere argument on feminism (as a political matter, you wanna discuss feminism as what interests a female, please enlighten me) or political matters or political correctness any of that crap. I'm not really interested in those subjects at all, they bore me brain dead. And that's not the point of this thread anyways. Even if the site allowed it I wouldn't have any interest in discussing those things. So personally I wanna steer clear of em.

The point(s) of this thread is for me to get some idea of what Chick Lit is, what it's compose of, who reads it, who I maybe should read that writes it, and what you as a woman or a girl would like to see such literature cover as subject matter? What as a female wants to make you read a book or a story?

Course men can answer too, especially if you know anything about or have experience with the subject. But primarily I'm interested in the opinion of the ladies on this one fellas. Leastways, first and foremost.

So if you got anything for me to consider then I'll certainly listen.
And thanks in advance for the help...

 

[Crothian]

I read some Chick Lit though I'm sure that's probably not the genre title they'd perfer. Lately the Paranormal Romance genre which I would call a subset of Woman's Literature has been producing some very enjoyable series.

 

[Jack7]

I read some Chick Lit though I'm sure that's probably not the genre title they'd perfer. Lately the Paranormal Romance genre which I would call a subset of Woman's Literature has been producing some very enjoyable series.

Can you explain a little? Are you talking about something like Twilight?

I saw those films and thought they were perhaps the suckiest films I've ever seen. Haven't read the books though, so I can't really comment on them. I hope they're a lot better than the films.

But generally speaking I'm not opposed to the idea of that sub-genre at all. I'm not even opposed to the general themes of Twilight, I just think they could have been executed far better. (Far, far better, though it is a clever idea for a book series.) It (paranormal romance) might work in well though with the ideas I've had, similar to changeling and fairie romance stories and Authurian romance. I'd thought of writing a romance involving a ghost character who nobody realizes is a ghost, including the woman involved with him. If I'm reading you right then paranormal romance just seems like a modern retelling of Medieval fairie/spook/horror/gothic romances.

Anyways you can explain what you mean.

Any other kinds of chick lit you might recommend or wanna talk about?

 

[AdmundfortGeographer]

Asked my wife, and avid reader of the paranormal romance subgenre and the fantasy genre.

• Generally, the protagonist is a woman, often a young woman.
• Generally, set in an urban setting like Chicago, LA, New York, London, Paris . . .
• Generally, about the protagonist's relationships with others or about the protagonist's work.
• Generally, the cover is drawn with swoopy lines showing the protagonist shopping or walking down the street. If in the paranormal romance subgenre then the cover generally shows a brunette in leather with bare midriff or exposed back tattoo.

 

[Jack7]

Asked my wife, and avid reader of the paranormal romance subgenre and the fantasy genre.
Generally, the protagonist is a woman, often a young woman.
Generally, set in an urban setting like Chicago, LA, New York, London, Paris . . .
Generally, about the protagonist's relationships with others or about the protagonist's work.
Generally, the cover is drawn with swoopy lines showing the protagonist shopping or walking down the street. If in the paranormal romance subgenre then the cover generally shows a brunette in leather with bare midriff or exposed back tattoo.

Saw this post right before heading out to the woods.

Thanks Eric, very helpful.
Hope others will add more later.

Well, I gotta eat and bug out.

See ya.

 

[Crothian]

Can you explain a little? Are you talking about something like Twilight?

Those are some but there are better series out there like Anita Blake, Sookie Stackhouse, and others. Buffy the Vampire Slayer arguable really popularized the genre and its been growing ever since.

What are you looking for? Authors, what it is, book suggestions? Eric and his wife do a good job of getting down the basics.

 

[Quantum]

Good examples are Jewel Of The Nile and Romancing The Stone.

 

[Dioltach]

If you'd like to try something like chicklit but written for men, you could try Mike Gayle's novels, which have been described as "the male confessional". I'd recommend starting with Dinner For Two, Turning Thirty, Brand New Friend or His 'n' Hers. They're very funny, and generally deal with the ups and downs in the life of the average bloke.

 

[Mark]

Chick Lit (. . .) Female Literature (. . .) Women's Literature

These terms are not interchangeable. I'd suggest reading this review of a book of essays on Chick Lit and maybe picking up a copy if you are serious about educating yourself on the subject.

Chick Lit: The New Woman's Fiction

For a better understanding of the distinctions in the terms you are trying to use -

Women's fiction - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If you are interested in some good reading from a whole bunch of Women who write literary fiction, I would suggest [ame=http://www.amazon.com/This-Not-Chick-Lit-Original/dp/0812975677/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1266089399&sr=1-1]This Is Not Chick Lit: Original Stories by America's Best Women Writers[/ame] edited by Elizabeth Merrick. In her forward she writes, "Chick Lit is a genre, like the thriller, the sci-fi novel, or the fantasy epic. Its form and content are, more or less, formulaic: white girl in the big city searches for Prince Charming, all the while shopping, alternately cheating on or adhereing to her diet, dodging her boss, and enjoying the occasional teary-eyed lunch with her token Sassy Gay Friend. Chick Lit is the daughter of the romance novel and the step sister of the fashion magazine." She credits Bridget Jones's Diary, as others have, as ushering in the genre in 1996. The modern literary fiction you will find in the book edited by Merrick is, as advertised, Not Chick Lit.

And here's a bit of advice, too. When referring to women under any circumstances, but particularly when attempting to solicit their input on matters pertaining to "women's issues" (as you put it), it is probably unwise to refer to them as "the ladies" as that has become as rather cliché moniker best reserved as dilogue escaping the the slobbering lips of someone in leisure suit with a come-over while on the make at some local lounge during happy hour.

 

[Jack7]

These terms are not interchangeable. I'd suggest reading this review of a book of essays on Chick Lit and maybe picking up a copy if you are serious about educating yourself on the subject.

That's interesting and I did not know that. I'm gonna look that up. See what it implies. But if I'm reading you right then Women's Literature is what we'd call Literary (Capital L) and various incarnations of Chick Lit are more like genre-based, commercial writings. That would make sense to me. Though I'm all for things being both Literary, and Commercially/Popularly successful so maybe I can find a way to wrap them around each other.

it is probably unwise to refer to them as "the ladies" as that has become as rather cliché moniker best reserved as dilogue escaping the the slobbering lips of someone in leisure suit with a come-over while on the make at some local lounge during happy hour.

That may be nothing more than a regional and/or generational thing. Around these parts ladies is almost always a term of respect for females, though I guess it could be applied differently in a bar. And probably nobody my age would say lady if they really meant, "not a lady."

I meant lady as in the female version or variant of gentleman. Odd to me I gotta explain that (never occurred to me I'd need to) but I guess times and cultures and vocabulary uses do change. Plus meaning connotations vary by region.

If you'd like to try something like chicklit but written for men, you could try Mike Gayle's novels, which have been described as "the male confessional". I'd recommend starting with Dinner For Two, Turning Thirty, Brand New Friend or His 'n' Hers. They're very funny, and generally deal with the ups and downs in the life of the average bloke.

That's interesting to me too. Didn't know there was a male version of chick lit.
Is humor a big part of both genres?

Good examples are Jewel Of The Nile and Romancing The Stone.

Those are some but there are better series out there like Anita Blake, Sookie Stackhouse, and others.

Thanks everybody for these and other examples. It'll give me something to look into.

And yeah I'm looking for authors/books, and explanations of what these things mean.

While walking in the woods I thought about what Eric had posted.

I found these parts most interesting:

Generally, the protagonist is a woman, often a young woman.
Generally, set in an urban setting like Chicago, LA, New York, London, Paris . . Generally, about the protagonist's relationships with others or about the protagonist's work.

Ruminating on those I started to work out a very basic plot idea in my head.

Woman works in big city. It's dirty, congested, maybe dangerous. Dissatisfied with job and life. Finds out she has some disease, maybe cancer, maybe not. Moves out into the deep country. Starts encountering very odd and weird things.

Sheds urban existence. Starts feeling a lot healthier. Takes up an entirely different kind of occupation. Meets guy who at this point (in my head) may or may not be a ghost. Or is odd in some other way.

That's all I got so far.

But I'd like to know about other touchstones or key points in chick lit and women's literature or whatever it may be that I'd like to investigate given Mark's post.

See what I can take advantage of from both sources and maybe what new kinds of things I can invent.

I hope some of the ladies (sorry ladies, but female when addressing females directly seems very cold and sterile to me, the way I was raised I reckon) will respond and tell me what they'd like to see. You know, if you could read a book written specifically for you then what would you like to see in it, and covered?

And do you like a particular tone of voice, or way of writing?

And another question that interests me. If you didn't know the author/authoress of a book, do you think you could tell, just from the way the writer uses language, if the writer was a man or a woman? I'm not talking about what they are writing about (the subject matter) but just from use of the language. Could you tell a man from a woman do you think? If you didn't know beforehand?

Thanks again everyone.